Chinese UAV & UCAV development

Discussion in 'Air Force' started by AssassinsMace, Oct 23, 2007.

  1. jobjed
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    jobjed Senior Member

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    I think so. Both the WZ-2000 and the EA-03 are managed by GAAC so it's believable that the EA-03 is a matured development of the foundation laid by the WZ-2000 project.
     
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  2. vesicles
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    vesicles Major

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    As a matter of fact, I am ok with even a 10:1 man vs. unmanned deal.

    Fighting a war without losing human life is always a plus. It’s always easier to replace equipment than highly trained pilots, which might take decades to acquire all the skills and experience.

    Just imagine that same pilot can simply walk away and go home to his/her family after they lose a fight. Then the next day, he/she can take another UAV and fight another day and acquiring even more experience and become even more skilled. As opposed to the most dreadful situation, where the pilot is lost, along with the plane...

    Loss of equipment can be recovered, but losing human lives can never be recovered. Neither is their decades of experience.
     
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  3. kwaigonegin
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    kwaigonegin Colonel

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    of course which was why i said there are advantages and strategic implications to drones even as a fighter.
     
  4. ougoah
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    ougoah Junior Member
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    But eventually UCAVs will be more effective than manned fighter because they can pull turns that are not possible with manned fighters so eventually (if all other parameters are even) the very fact that UCAVs can turn tighter will mean they can beat manned fighters with considerable ease. BVR will be more or less even but WVR will entirely be in the favour of the machine AI/ remote pilot. Granted that current UCAVs are nowhere near this level.
     
  5. plawolf
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    plawolf Brigadier

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    I think you guys are missing the point a bit with the pure UCAV vs manned fighter debate.

    That is a far broader, longer term and more theoretical discussion that the one at hand.

    The Dark Sword is supposed to be an unmanned wingman to the J20 (and potentially other legacy aircraft, but let’s just stick with the J20 for now).

    That immediately gives the J20 a lot of advantages and options compared to pure manned enemy 5th gens.

    Some obvious examples off the top of my head:

    - the DS could range ahead of the J20, and either use active radar and/or passive IRST to hunt for enemy stealths while broadcasting their sensor data back to the J20.

    Either opfor detects the DS first and engages it, thereby giving away their own location, or they get detected by the DS first, allow both the DS and the J20 to attack first.

    With the DS up front, that should far extend the normal detection ranges, which will give the J20 far more manoeuvring options it might otherwise not have against enemy stealths even if it detected the enemy first.

    - the DS could significantly expand the number of missiles available to the J20 pilot.

    - in a fight, current AI should be able to easily handle BVR. In WVR, there are still a wide range of roles the DS could perform.

    Even with a basic dogfighting AI that is normally no match for a manned pilot one-on-one, it is still a dangerous threat the enemy pilots could not afford to ignore.

    If they are chasing or being chased by the DS, they are not doing the same to the J20.

    An enemy pilot might be able to shake a DS on its tail, but doing so will likely cost him/her a lot of attention and energy, thus potentially making them a much easier target for the waiting J20.

    On the flip side, an enemy stealth chasing a J20 may have to perform defensive manoeuvring itself to shake a DS snapping at his heels, giving the J20 time and opportunity to break away and turn the tables.

    If you want to get into the more advanced options, you can have a hybrid man-in-the-loop control system, whereby a human pilot is looped in and could prioritise targets which the DS would then go attack/defend.

    You could do all of that in training/simulator, and throw in machine learning and have a constantly improving AI in the DS.

    If you can build a good enough simulator programme, you could load that, and the machine learning AI into a supercomputer and after a few million, ‘games’, the AI might actually surpass the best human pilots much like how it has happened with Go recently.
     
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  6. Totoro
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    Totoro Senior Member
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    Unmanned wingmen can be a terrific asset. At the same time, an unmanned plane like Dark Sword, with stealth design, sensors and all is going to cost 50-80% of the J20, both procurement wise and maintenance wise. I don't see more than 1-2 such wingmen being deployed for every J20. That doesn't belittle their usefulness, though. Perhaps even just 4 such wingmen for a flight of 12 J-20 can be worthwhile.

    DS-like unmanned plane, if sized like that recent photo of DS mockup, is going to hold 4-6 BVR weapons, depending on fuel/range design requirement. That's perhaps just the right number, I am not trying to paint it as either good or bad.
     
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  7. Deino
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    Deino Brigadier
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    A WD-1K WL-I together with J-8H or F at the same base seems like some interesting news? Anyone with an idea where???

    J-8H or F + WD-1K - unknown base.jpg
     
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  8. WestRiver
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    WestRiver Junior Member
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  9. szbd
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    szbd Junior Member

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    think this way: side A go for a strike mission on side B's carrier battle group. There are manned fighters + unmmanned bombers in side A, and only manned fighters in side B. side A's fighter can concentrate on side B's fighters and totally no concern for their own bombers. While side B's fighters have to take care of those bombers first because they are going to bomb the carriers.
     
  10. SinoSoldier
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    SinoSoldier Major

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    Can somebody translate the text on the screen and on the sign below the TV? This seems to be an exhibition of some sort featuring the Dark Sword.

    SS.jpeg
     
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