Chinese Trainer Aircraft (JL-8, JL-9, JL-10 (L-15), etc.)

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

PLAAF placed an order of 4 L-15 for 2006
PLAAF placed an order of 4 L-15 for 2006 and small batch production will begain 2007



2006年4架L15样机将被空军收购

洪都航空(600316)昨日(6)公布的年报显示，2005年公司实现主营业务收入同比减少4.82%；净利润同比大增70.98%；每股收益0.23元；利润分配方案为10派0.20元(含税)。该股昨日复牌后冲高回落，收盘下跌3.89%，报13.34元。 [

2005年，公司与中国航空技术进出口总公司先后签订了两批共67架的K8教练机生产合同，将为公司近两年生产经营提供坚实的保障，同时公司的农林飞机市场也取得了良好的效果，未来将有不错的业绩预期。
　　值得注意的是，公司参与投资和研制的L15(猎鹰)高级教练机。该机是一种融合了各项最新航空技术的新一代超音速、喷气式教练机，采用双发、双座，具有先进的气动布局，高度综合的航空电子系统，国内最先进的电传控制系统和高密度的结构布局。3月13日下午，L15高级教练机试飞成功，显著提升公司的估值水平。2006年4架L15样机将被空军收购，2007年公司将开始小规模化生产，2008、2009年公司将迎来业绩增长的高峰。

　　分析师指出，L15的试飞成功，确定了公司未来的盈利增长点，加上K8和农林机订单的保障，公司未来业绩将继续保持良好的增长势头。不过由于连续上涨，其股价已达合适水平，短期不会有太大上涨空间
来源： 每日经济新闻



Typhaung, do you find credibility in this report?

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Hello all its been awhile
Been looking over the specs on this aircraft from SinoDefence and have a few questions and ideas.
1. Could a larger or more advance radar and weapons be installed so the L-15 could carry laser guided missiles and bombs?
2. I would like to see some specs on the combat version.
3. Can Russian weapons be used or only Chinese?
4. Can the L-15 compete in the Yak-130/Hawk/ etc. market?
5. Is the pilot's cockpit armored like the Su-25?

I could use an aircraft like this in my book for Ecuador, Bolivia, and Venezuela to use as trainer, light-combat attack jet, close air ground support, helicopter killer and more.
* Thought I read some where that China might import natural gas from Bolivia maybe arms for gas deal could be made.

South America I think might be one of the larger military arms markets in the world in the next ten years and trainer/light-combat aircraft could fill some of the needs of the air forces there. Many countries still operate the A-37 in South America so I think the L-15 could break into these markets. A great way to get better foot hold in South America for China. As for sales it might help using the L-15 trainer as a lead in aircraft for other more advance Chinese aircraft.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

nonpilot said:

Hello all its been awhile
Been looking over the specs on this aircraft from SinoDefence and have a few questions and ideas.
1. Could a larger or more advance radar and weapons be installed so the L-15 could carry laser guided missiles and bombs?
2. I would like to see some specs on the combat version.
3. Can Russian weapons be used or only Chinese?
4. Can the L-15 compete in the Yak-130/Hawk/ etc. market?
5. Is the pilot's cockpit armored like the Su-25?

I could use an aircraft like this in my book for Ecuador, Bolivia, and Venezuela to use as trainer, light-combat attack jet, close air ground support, helicopter killer and more.
* Thought I read some where that China might import natural gas from Bolivia maybe arms for gas deal could be made.

South America I think might be one of the larger military arms markets in the world in the next ten years and trainer/light-combat aircraft could fill some of the needs of the air forces there. Many countries still operate the A-37 in South America so I think the L-15 could break into these markets. A great way to get better foot hold in South America for China. As for sales it might help using the L-15 trainer as a lead in aircraft for other more advance Chinese aircraft.

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well, it did indicate that the nose can be expanded for a larger radar. I don't see why not. I'm sure it can carry pods to allow for launching of LGBs. As shown with JH-7A, integration with Russian weapons on an indigenous system is definitely possible. Can it compete with YAK-130? Sure, why not. We need to wait for 03 to come out to judge how good this thing really will be. Is it's cockpit armoured? No. They don't have an attacking version out. It's still on the drawing board.

As for that Hongdu article, it's slightly unbelievable, because I can't imagine the 3 prototypes finishing enough testing this year. Again, wait until 03 fly off, then we will get a better idea.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Articles post by HK Dragon in AFM.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Hi Guys!

Its been some time since I last posted on this forum. While it appears that the JL-15 will be THE advanced and/or LIFT trainer for the PLAAF/PLANAF, I feel that the JL-9 will still have a large role to play. Also, I have to admit that I have a soft spot in my heart for what will probably be the last reincarnation of the J-7/JJ-7/MiG-21 to fly.

I feel this is true for several reasons.

Firstly, there is ubiquity; the PLAAF and PLANAF still operate some 700(?) J-7's, 300(?) J-8's and aerodynamically similar aircraft like the JH-7 and Q-5. These older design (read obsolescent) aircraft currently are and will still comprise the bulk of the PLAAF's and PLANAF's inventory for at least (perhaps) the end of the decade.

The JL-9 would still be a suitable advanced trainer for these aircraft; indeed, in this particular role it would be more suitable than the JL-15 (which is more suited for training J-10 and J-11 pilots)!

This is particularly true if its flight characteristics could be reprogrammed via the same set of fly-by-wire techniques utilized on the experimental JL-8. Though admittedly that would probably raise the cost, it would allow the JL-9 to serve as an advanced trainer for a greater variety of combat aircraft.


Secondly, there is the issue of experience. The PLAAF and PLANAF have had decades of experience operating this aircraft and have both the neccesary maintenance equipment and personnel at hand. The Chinese aircraft industry has large production lines and tooling for this aircraft so no further investment need be made. There are no great technical (or financial) risks involved.

Thirdly is the issue of cost. For the reasons stated above, this aircraft is cheap. It is cheap to make, and cheap to operate. This in itself is a great virtue.

Fourth is that there is room for improvement. The JL-9 shares the layout of the JJ-7 and the double-delta wing of the J-7E. If (perhaps with permission from Chendu) it were to have the J-7E's automaneuvering flaps as well, that would greatly enhance its' maneuverability.

Further one could install a much better engine (like the Kunlun II) with higher thrust, lower specific fuel consumption and greater reliability. Perhaps (with more of Chengdu's cooperation), things like DSI and LERX's may be adapted.

What is obvious of course is that a much larger radar can be installed in the new nose than is possible with the J-7/JJ-7. Add to that better avionics all-around and I feel that this aircraft has the potential to be a reasonably successful export trainer/strike/budget fighter.

Let us be honest with ourselves, this aircraft is a stop-gap trainer. The need for it will disappear with the demise of the J-7's and J-8's from the Chinese airforces. Yet I think many people may still be surprised how much life there still is in the old girl yet!

Best Regards,

Dusky Lim

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

yeah, there is something to be said about JL-9. CCTV reported a while back that China is getting 10 JL-9 this year. It's probably a reward to GAIC for developing it so fast. But in reality though, JL-15 will get all of the orders once it becomes available.

Other than the capability issues, it has many other advantages:
1. it can be converted to the attacker role better, since it has turbofan engine, so it will have longer operating radius and such
2. The most important point - it has 3 times the service life of JL-9 (I'm not kidding here), so basically, you might get immediate savings with JL-9, but not over the long haul. When you think about that, it's probably cheaper to just get JL-15.
3. If you put FBW into JL-9, that will just raise the cost of the plane, so making it even more unattractive.

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

You gotta say, both JL-9 and JL-15 are very attractive aircraft for export.

To what weve seen,, JL-9 has an inflight refuelling probe?

Because JL-9 has similar performance and probably better compatibility with the older fighters like J-8D, the small number acquired (10?) could serve as inflight refueling trainers...which the PLAAF needs. I mean at the moment, I am really surprised not to have heard of any H-6U and J-8D accidents while conducting inflight refueling exercises, which is very good, and shows the training simulations do help. But it would be necessary to provide an inflight refueling trainer (even if it is only a static probe to simulate inflight refueling) to give new pilots the necessary experience before touching a J-8D.

If PLAAF were to spend on JL-9, they might as well better pay for SLEP type upgrades for their JJ-7s instead, to keep em in service for a little longer. Though I have some feeling that they might make some kind of JJ-7E/G version, which features the double delta wing, and similar avionics, new canopy/cockpit, but newly manufactured. This would be far more economical than JL-9, and would be far less riskier. Such design could replace the basic JJ-7s, with the advantage of better manoeuverability and avionics. I agree to some people that PLAAF should operate a two tiered advance trainer, and one has to be trainer for the Low mix, while one for the High mix of fighters. In addition, a JJ-7E/G idea is quite plausible, as Chinese aero industry is quite capable of turning around 1960 designs with new techs, like the recent two seater Q-5 addition.

But God forbid the PLAAF from not ordering any JL-15s. It is an excellent trainer and my God its beautiful in many aspects. JL-15 will serve far beyond training. If a single seater is derived, it would be a potential replacement for the Q-5 as a light attack aircraft...

1) Better avionics...especially with only one seat, the second seat could be filled up with avionics or fuel
2) Could carry pods and systems to assist in PGM delivery
3) If it carries as much weapons load as the Yak-130 (seven hardpoints, 3000kg), it already possesses far greater weapons carriage than the Q-5 and J-7
4) Maneuverable, supersonic, FBW

Altogether, a single seat variant could do as well on the export market as the single seated Hawk derivative!

Re: JL-15 and other trainers

this is from Zhuhai airshow on JL-9, a lot of publicity on Shanying, not sure if it deserves it.

ZHUHAI, Oct 31, 2006 (Xinhua via COMTEX) -- China's most advanced fighter-pilot
trainer, the "Shanying", or Mountain Eagle, will be delivered to customers in
2007, said the chief architect Sun Huizhong on Tuesday.

Sun said the jet passed technical testing in December 2005, two years after its
maiden flight on December 13, 2003.

China is installing a stability control system and a microwave landing system to
meet the new requirements of customers, said Sun, who works at the Guizhou
Aviation Industry Group under the first division of China Aerospace Science and
Industry Corporation.

Sun added the two-seat trainer can be used for ground attack or be refitted as a
reconnaissance plane, light attack plane or electronics jamming plane.

The trainer, along with L-15 trainer, FTC-2000 trainer, Eagle-500 aircraft, the
spacecraft of Shenzhou-6 and a prototype of China's proposed lunar explorer, are
on display at Airshow China 2006 being held in southern coastal city of Zhuhai.

This is the 6th airshow of its kind in China which was first initiated in 1996,
also in Zhuhai. It opened on October 30 and will last through November 5.

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