Chinese Swords

siegecrossbow said:

So-called "civilian masters" are never a match for competent battlefield combatants.

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While anybody can call themselves a "master", many martial artists of yore worked as caravan guards, gang enforcers, or outright bandits. In a one-on-one fight, I would put my money on those people than on the average soldier.

wtlh said:

To my knowledge (I could be wrong), Miao Dao is a modern creation. Modern being during the Republic era. It is called "Miao" because of the katana-like shape of the blade resembling a grass shoot.

Obviously Miao Dao had inspirations from Imperial era weapons, but its particular name and form is a product of the Republic.

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To my knowledge Miao Dao was made during Ming Dynasty against the WoKou Pirates. as chinese troops during Ming dynasty didnt really use two handed swords, and were at a disadvantage against the WoKou using nodachi

HeiTaoHua said:

To my knowledge Miao Dao was made during Ming Dynasty against the WoKou Pirates. as chinese troops during Ming dynasty didnt really use two handed swords, and were at a disadvantage against the WoKou using nodachi

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Wasn't that the Wo Dao?

Wo in chinese mean japanese during Ming, so wodao meant japanese sword. MiaoDao is just another name for Wodao. but some sources dictate they are different, so its quite unclear ....sorry cant help clarify much either

Weapons similar to Miao Dao might exists long time ago; however, I believe the term Miao Dao only emerged during the second Sino-Japanese war. It worth to mention that the term "Miao" means sprout, not ethnic Miao.

HeiTaoHua said:

Wo in chinese mean japanese during Ming, so wodao meant japanese sword. MiaoDao is just another name for Wodao. but some sources dictate they are different, so its quite unclear ....sorry cant help clarify much either

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I think Wo Dao could mean both: a captured or bought Japanese sword made by Japanese smiths, or a Chinese made and issued sword in the similar style as the Japanese sword. The mention of Wo Dao in official records mostly existed only during the period of Qi Ji Guang's battles against Japanese pirates.

There have also been a mention of one Ming General having a large collection of Wo Dao---a criminal accusation directed against him by the state during a purge as a "proof" of his intention to raise a private army. It is unclear whether these were Chinese made or imported from Japan.

solarz said:

While anybody can call themselves a "master", many martial artists of yore worked as caravan guards, gang enforcers, or outright bandits. In a one-on-one fight, I would put my money on those people than on the average soldier.

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Well, lets put it this way,

if it is a 1-on-1 or a loose brawl, I will bet on the civilian masters,

if it is a siege, shield wall formation, pike formation, barrage fire, or any type of centurion sized unit or up, i would bet on career soldiers.

Lezt said:

Well, lets put it this way,

if it is a 1-on-1 or a loose brawl, I will bet on the civilian masters,

if it is a siege, shield wall formation, pike formation, barrage fire, or any type of centurion sized unit or up, i would bet on career soldiers.

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Yup, totally agreed. Warfare started as just combat between two groups of individuals, but as time went on, it became more and more specialized. If you're in a war zone, you'd probably want a squad of marines protecting you. If you're getting accosted on the street, you would prefer to have a UFC fighter watching your back.

wtlh said:

I think Wo Dao could mean both: a captured or bought Japanese sword made by Japanese smiths, or a Chinese made and issued sword in the similar style as the Japanese sword. The mention of Wo Dao in official records mostly existed only during the period of Qi Ji Guang's battles against Japanese pirates.

There have also been a mention of one Ming General having a large collection of Wo Dao---a criminal accusation directed against him by the state during a purge as a "proof" of his intention to raise a private army. It is unclear whether these were Chinese made or imported from Japan.

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Wo Dao were Japanese swords. During the Ming Dynasty they were obtained through both legitimate (tribute) or illegal (smuggling) means. When minister Yan Song fell out of favor with the Emperor, his son Yan Shifan was executed for aiding Wokou Pirates (essentially treason). Apparently he had a large stash of Japanese swords.

solarz said:

Yup, totally agreed. Warfare started as just combat between two groups of individuals, but as time went on, it became more and more specialized. If you're in a war zone, you'd probably want a squad of marines protecting you. If you're getting accosted on the street, you would prefer to have a UFC fighter watching your back.

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If I am getting accosted on the street, I wouldn't mind a squad of marines helping me out.