Chinese Swords

Equation said:

Hey TE is there a sword made of titanium metal today? I wonder how that would hold up against other traditional metal swords of any kind?

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Ti would make terrible blades. They are not as hard as steel and difficult to keep sharp. They are also not necessarily stronger than steel blades that has been tempered and made properly. They are also more brittle than quality steel.

Ti would make a good handle and sheath though.

What I'm curious is ceramic blades you see in kitchen cutleries.. I wonder how a ceramic blade might fair.. Probably too soft and brittle also unless it has been mixed with some alloys.

Also you guys seemed knowledgeable about medieval weapons and warfare. I'm impressed.. Lol

Titanium niobium Alloy Swords I know have been done.
and they make a near Maio Dao / Katana hybrid
As to Ceramic, it is to hard making it brittle and would shatter on a blow. It makes a fine Slicing tool for carving of Sushi and meats but it can't take a blow.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Incidentally they also have a non sword of Chinese inspiration.

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Chinese melee weapons that could have been the inspiration:

I have no idea what the names are in English. If anyone knows and can post about them that'd be great.

Top: metal "whip", round and ridged.
Second from Top: metal "cane", can have triangular or square cross-section.
Bottom Left: "fork" or sai in Japanese, probably the most well-known of this bunch in the West thanks to ninjas.
Bottom Right: "Emei (as in the Chinese Buddhist wushu school) spikes".

I believe the first three originated in India and spread to China with Buddhism. Not sure about the fourth.

I had a nice cold steel flip knife that was stolen fron my check luagage...bastards TSA!!!

One more Chinese non-sword sword, or two:

Hook swords!

This is the only truly unique and purely Chinese sword evolution that I know of, of course it was not a military weapon nor were any of the previous Chinese non-sword swords that I posted about.

The only one that was ever "official" was either the metal "whip" or "cane" which in various circumstances were issued to particularly upstanding officials to have the authority to discipline others including officials, in one instance even the emperor (the "dragon head whip/cane"), when they ever drifted from righteous behavior.

PanAsian said:

This is the only truly unique and purely Chinese sword evolution that I know of, of course it was not a military weapon nor were any of the previous Chinese non-sword swords that I posted about.

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While Wuxia novels are largely fantasy, we can't deny that there are certainly two parallel martial traditions in ancient China. One is military and focused on winning battles. The other is "civilian" (if it could be called such), and focused on winning one-on-one duels or small group battles, what we would essentially call "street fights" today. The hook swords would be used in the latter tradition.

PanAsian said:

One more Chinese non-sword sword, or two:
View attachment 12279
Hook swords!

This is the only truly unique and purely Chinese sword evolution that I know of, of course it was not a military weapon nor were any of the previous Chinese non-sword swords that I posted about.

The only one that was ever "official" was either the metal "whip" or "cane" which in various circumstances were issued to particularly upstanding officials to have the authority to discipline others including officials, in one instance even the emperor (the "dragon head whip/cane"), when they ever drifted from righteous behavior.

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This particular weapon didn't come about until the Qing Dynasty.

The "stiff whips" are actually a form of mace used to counter heavy Jurchen/Khitan cavalry.

I think there is a documentary on Qing weaponry. It mentioned that, due to their technique in creating their bronze sword, they were able to make it longer thus deadlier against foes that we using swords.

For the Dao, from Ming and onward, (again somewhere I read this) due to the the influence from Mongol weapons, the curve from Mongol swords influenced on the manufacturing of Chinese sword and this increased slashing effectiveness. If you take a look at the Dao, they also have a pointed tip at the end which can be used for stabbing. Also from what I read previously, learning effectively on how to used a Dao was easier than using Jian.

Like previous poster have said. There are different style of fighting, one for warfare and one for non-warfare (eg, assassination, self defense and others methods used for non-warfare) In war, soldiers are facing hordes of enemies with pole-arms. Cavalry will use Jian, Dao and bow for hit and runs. You will most likely be facing pole arms and and arrows in warfare, so Jian and Dao will most likely be used less. In "civilian life" Jian and Dao are most likely used than pole arms, since you have more room to maneuver and deflect pole arms more easily. In assassination, (I don't even have to explain this) you are not going to be using pole arms, but you will not be just using Jian and Dao. Assassins in China also uses specialty weapons or weird looking weapon to kill

In regarding to western armor, I always thought that it was the crossbow that rendered armor ineffective before gun power came into play.

ahho said:

I think there is a documentary on Qing weaponry. It mentioned that, due to their technique in creating their bronze sword, they were able to make it longer thus deadlier against foes that we using swords.

In regarding to western armor, I always thought that it was the crossbow that rendered armor ineffective before gun power came into play.

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I think you meant Qin dynasty? Qin and Qing are divided by almost 2000 years.

Crossbows rendered chainmail ineffective. As for plate armor... as long as you are rich enough to afford higher quality ones, you are pretty much impervious to arrows or even early firearms. In fact German blacksmiths used to "proof" their breast plates by firing at it with a pistol at point blank range. Not until the arquebus were supplanted by muskets did plate armor start falling out of favor.

first Armor was worn by more then just knights. degrees of armor were worn by every class engaged in battle.
second the Crossbow could pierce armor but it was hardly alone so could the long bow at twice the range, power and rate of fire. The English late in the 100 years war used more Archers with long bows then knights.
By the mid 1600 early 1700 full suits of armor were gone it was chest plate and helmet remained. Elements of these continued to materialize in battle into the 20th century the Steel chest plate was worn in the american Civil war and by Aircrews who flew in the Second world war, mail was worn in battle into the industrial revolution and is still worn today by butchers and shark divers, Steel helmets are worn by any number of third world armies today and the Helmet worn by the British in both world wars was designed off a military helmet first issued in 1011 AD. the design is interesting has a Asian parallel as both the British and Japanese designed a almost identical helmet with in about 300 years of each other. the Japanese version called a jingasa was used into the 19th century and were mostly lacquered hardened leather although some iron versions existed.
And even Today's body armor technologies still takes some cues form European armor.