Keep in mind that most of the so called katanas during the War of Resistance were mass-produced junk. Very few Japanese are descendants of prestigious Samurai, and fewer have high quality swords most people associate with feudal Japan.
Chinese Swords
- Thread starter ABC78
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Keep in mind that most of the so called katanas during the War of Resistance were mass-produced junk. Very few Japanese are descendants of prestigious Samurai, and fewer have high quality swords most people associate with feudal Japan.
That may be the case, but even a properly forged and treated Katana would shatter if struck by even a relatively crude Dadao, let alone a properly made one.
wtlh
Junior Member
Terran, I was thinking along similar line as you, perhaps the difference in armor is the answer. But I was think more about mail armor (popular in Europe but not in China), which is resistant to cuts but vulnerable to thrusts from sharp pointed sword. But on the other hand, lamellar armor were also very cut resistant, so why the move to Chinese single edge sword? Then you have Arab/Muslim armies that used mail armor very extensively but also used single edge type sword.
Full plate armor is a late medieval development in Europe, so that doesn't really explain about a thousand years history of preferred type of sword in Europe.
If you look at this chart of sword pattern development in China, you can see that early Chinese single edge sword (dao) have what looks like very strong tips that looks like they would be good at piercing lamellar type armor.
Well, if I remembered my history lessons correctly, the Dao became the predominant side-arm weapon during Han mainly due to cavalry. The main weapons of the infantry where pole arms and the cross-bow, while the main weapon of the cavalry where Dao.
The main side arm of the warring states were the double edged Jian because stabbing was a more efficient way of killing than slashing, It was the time when mass infantry was the dominant force between all sides, and most battles involved some hand-to-hand combat on foot. The Warring State jian's were predominantly used for stabbing. The thickness of those bronze and iron jian's actually varied in a wave pattern designed to absorb the shock from the blade stabbing into an hard object, like through a body, or armour, so that the blade won't snap.
The main enemy of the Han empire where the Xiongnu (Huns) on horse back. Cavalry became the main strike force, and the infantry mainly used to provide cross-bow fire and hold positions. The primary method of killing on a horse back is slashing. The single edged Dao design allowed a heavier and more robust blade, that is required to withstand the extra force inflicted from both the rider and the momentum of the horse. Further more, a Jian is more expensive to make.
One has to note that most of the Chinese popular culture and Kung Fu related stuff has nothing to do with the actual history, and most are just fantasy:
For example, Guan Yu NEVER used a Guan Dao (crescent moon Dao)... the earliest official record of the existence of a weapon in a similar form of the crescent moon pole arm was not after several hundreds years later.
The famous "ox-tail" Dao (i.e. what is commonly known as a Chinese broad sword) that is commonly seen in Kung Fu movies and Kung Fu competitions is in fact an almost exclusive civilian weapon that only came to existence relatively recently. None of the Chinese militaries of all dynasties ever issued such as their weapons. The standard issue swords of the Ming and Qing armies were "swallow feather" and later "willow leaf" Dao's, which has narrow blades curved in a similar fashion as the katana, compromising between the effectiveness of stabbing and slashing.
A lot of the so-called famous Chinese weapons were nothing more than modified farming tools used by civilians to bypass government weapon regulations.
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wtlh
Junior Member
Miao Dao is a modern weapon that came into existence during the republic era, used by one of the warlord armies. I would regard it as a better version of the Da Dao.
There are many two handed swords. Zhanma Dao, Xiu Dao, etc. And most Tang Dao (the ancestor of katanas) can be used two handed as well.
vesicles
Colonel
The common Dao looks so flexible that one can hardly believe that it could cut through anything. Yet, in one of the episodes of Deadly Warriors on Spike, they showed that a short-handled dao cut through a carcase of a pig (a whole hog with spine and everything) cleanly with a single stroke. That was impressive IMO.
Yep, Guan Yu most likely used a spear. A guan dao did not appear until the Song dynasty. even then, I don't think it was ever used as an actual weapon in combat. It was mainly to display one's strength in training. For instance, if you wanted to become an officer, one criteria would be to lift and wave the Guan Dao for however many strokes. It's way too heavy to be used in actual combat.
Yep, Guan Yu most likely used a spear. A guan dao did not appear until the Song dynasty. even then, I don't think it was ever used as an actual weapon in combat. It was mainly to display one's strength in training. For instance, if you wanted to become an officer, one criteria would be to lift and wave the Guan Dao for however many strokes. It's way too heavy to be used in actual combat.
solarz
Brigadier
Agreed, 82 jin (over 40 kg, maybe as much as 50kg) would be way too heavy to be a weapon. In comparison, a medieval longsword is 1.5kg, a great two-handed sword would be 3.6kg. This sledgehammer () for strength training is only 28lbs, or 13kg.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
for fun The Kilij
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solarz
Brigadier
Very cool videos! The straight sword is not as adept at cutting as the edged swords. Not too much of a surprise there. What did surprise me was the angle at which the katana could bend. I'm thinking this isn't a traditionally crafted katana.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
The Model is there Dragonfly series which is 1055 Carbon, not Tamahagane It's also not quite to Traditional spec as they thinkened the blade and went with a heavier blade as they figure they are selling to a 6'2 American not a 5'2 Japanese Samurai but then again the Chinese styled swords are also using modified designs and Modern Materials.
Oh And to set one more point not all European long blades are doubled edged
Incidentally they also have a non sword of Chinese inspiration.
Oh And to set one more point not all European long blades are doubled edged
Equation
Lieutenant General
Hey TE is there a sword made of titanium metal today? I wonder how that would hold up against other traditional metal swords of any kind?