Chinese shipbuilding industry

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
It would be extremely wasteful to introduce a new engine with the attending training, production and distribution of replacement parts, etc. with as only advantage that all intellectual properties are Chinese. Besides the Pielstick engine was developed a long time ago so it would be strange if a new engine wasn't better.
BTW Pielstick engines are made by Shaanxi Diesel Engine Works in China and licensees in several other countries, according to
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.

Well it is nice to have domestically source engine manufacturer even though Pielstick is license and built in China
Because just in case of embargo China has another source of engine

License agreement is tricky and it doesn't mean 100% of the parts are built in China because the licencor normally withheld the most critical part of the engine and still required it to be imported
I have no doubt that in emergency China can also duplicate those critical part

Another thing is the licencor doesn't normally license the most advance version of the engine or else it will compete with itself
so you are limited to the second best version of the engine
License does improve the fabrication process, QA and QA of China but it doesn't contribute to the advancement of Chinese engine design

And another thing is add to cost because you have to pay for the IPR
 

delft

Brigadier
Well it is nice to have domestically source engine manufacturer even though Pielstick is license and built in China
Because just in case of embargo China has another source of engine

License agreement is tricky and it doesn't mean 100% of the parts are built in China because the licencor normally withheld the most critical part of the engine and still required it to be imported
I have no doubt that in emergency China can also duplicate those critical part

Another thing is the licencor doesn't normally license the most advance version of the engine or else it will compete with itself
so you are limited to the second best version of the engine
License does improve the fabrication process, QA and QA of China but it doesn't contribute to the advancement of Chinese engine design

And another thing is add to cost because you have to pay for the IPR
Large diesel engines are expensive to transport. An extreme example is Sulzer in Winterthur, Switzerland. Nowadays companies can have plants all over the World but Sulzer because one of the few marine diesel engine designers before that time. And sending a large diesel from Winterthur to a shipyard even in Europe would have been an expensive undertaking. So keeping back information for the latest version will just loose you your customer to another. And of course you want all information you can get on your latest version in order to improve it further.
 

KIENCHIN

Junior Member
Registered Member
Large diesel engines are expensive to transport. An extreme example is Sulzer in Winterthur, Switzerland. Nowadays companies can have plants all over the World but Sulzer because one of the few marine diesel engine designers before that time. And sending a large diesel from Winterthur to a shipyard even in Europe would have been an expensive undertaking. So keeping back information for the latest version will just loose you your customer to another. And of course you want all information you can get on your latest version in order to improve it further.
Well gentlemen, mechanical parts are relatively easy to replicate under license, since it would come with the engineering specification from the licensee. It is the manufacturing process and the control electronics with it's software that would be held back. To have one's own ability to manufacter everthing and own the IP is a start, we dont expect it to be as good as the likes of world class leader Watsila but it is another step towards high value added manufacturing.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
China is now the most efficient shipbuilder beating the Korean
Flashed the first of the 30 Chinese VLOC vessels of 400,000t, the largest in the world. Construction lasted 11 months.
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delft

Brigadier
400,000 t the largest in the world? I thought there were oil tankers over 650,000 t. Or are they not comparable? Am I missing something?
IIRC the largest oil carrier was about 550 000 t but that this ship was lost many years ago. Failed in a bay in Ireland where it transferred oil to smaller tankers?
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Biggest ever I believe was a super tanker named Knock Nevis... definitely over 250k tons dry and close to 600k tons full.
It makes a supercarrier puny by comparison. These days even many cruise ships are over 100k tons easy. Never been on one and don't intend to. When I go on a cruise these days I rather not go with 5000 other revelers.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Well seem like Xiamen shipyard just won the tender for Cruise ship. With it China basically catch up with the Korean Because Cruise ship is high end product of shipyard via Beijing walker
Fujian has a long history in shipbuilding In fact Mawei shipyard in Fuzhou is one of the oldest in China started in 1866 just 1 year later than Jiangnan. But due to the location across the Taiwan strait if was neglected until the reform . I believe the first Chinese iron ship was build in Mawei
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Viking Line orders new ship from China for 100M euros less than local shipyard
The Finnish firm Viking Line has ordered a new cruise ship from China. The new vessel will serve the cruise operator's Turku-Stockholm route starting in 2020.

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18.10.2017 17:30 | updated 18.10.2017 18:01
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An artist's impression of the new Viking Line cruise ship. Image: Viking Line

Viking Line has commissioned a new cruise ship from China, saying that the price of a Finnish-made equivalent was prohibitively higher. The Viking Line shipping company out of the Åland Islands has a fleet of seven cruise ships sailing to different destinations on the Baltic Sea. The new Turku-Stockholm route ship will replace the M/S Amorella, which is up for sale.

Viking Line CEO Jan Hanses says Xiamen Shipbuilding was able to offer a good price and early delivery date in light of the lack of capacity in Finnish shipyards.

"The only dockyard that would have been able to do this was the Turku shipyard, but they have such a packed order book that they could only offer delivery around 2024. The offer price was also a lot higher than what we got from China. In fact we're talking nearly 100 million more," said chief executive Jan Hanses.

Given that the value of the deal is some 194 million euros, it means that it would have cost nearly 300 million euros to commission the vessel from a Finnish shipbuilder. Viking Line noted that it was also easy to organise financing in China - Finnish and German banks are also on board alongside Chinese institutions.

A new mechanical rotor sail is due to be fitted on Viking's flagship Grace, next year. The new vessel will also have a fuel-saving rotor sail. For fuel, it will use Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) and will be more energy-efficient than Grace, burning roughly one-tenth less fuel than Grace.

"We have optimised the machinery, the body and reduced energy consumption on the hotel deck," Hanses explained.

The vessel will employ many subcontractors in Finland. For example, the power systems and engineering company Wärtsilä will deliver the vesse'ls engines.

Order piques Chinese interest
Growing numbers of Chinese tourists are visiting Finland, including travelers arriving by sea. A ship order from China has also whetted Chinese appetites to visit Finland, something the company says would not have been the case without the cruise liner order. According to Hanses, the number of Chinese tourists has the potential to grow from 100,000 to some 200,000.

However the new liner will be used for traffic between Turku and Stockholm and will be designed to meet the expectations of Nordic travellers. The interiors will be designed by the Swedish architects Koncept Stockholm, selected from among a host of different contenders. Viking Line said that it chose the firm because it stood out from the rest with its ability to combine Scandinavian levity and playfulness.

Kocept Stockholm was responsible for the interior of the centrally located Scandic Haymarket Hotel near Hötorget city square in downtown Stockholm.

Hundreds of millions in state subsidies for shipping
Last year Finnish shipping companies received some 100 million euros in labour cost subsidies, a slight increase over recent years. The support has ignited heated debate in many quarters.

State aid to maritime transport companies complies with EU guidelines. Finland and 15 other seafaring states in the EU either comply with a net wage model, or they get returns on non-wage labour costs. In the net wage model, shipping companies do not have to pay withholding taxes on behalf of employees or employer contributions. This means that employers do not have to hand over money to the tax authorities.

Currently, Finland, the Netherlands, Germany, France, Ireland, Greece and Luxembourg refund withholding taxes and non-wage labor costs to employers or apply them at a lower rate.

Options: Swedish flag or pack up
Hanses condemned the Finnish refund system, saying that it gives the impression that it is a form of corporate subsidy.

"It would be easier to argue if we too also reflected the basic purpose [of support]m so that we would not pass on taxes on behalf of employees nor pay additional costs," he elaborated.

If Finland were to eliminate state subsidies for the maritime industry and Sweden were to keep it, one option would be for shipping companies to either adopt a Swedish flag or go out of business.

"Of course the latter is not an option," Hanses said.

The Viking Line CEO saud that the state has been understanding about the existing subsidy regime so he is hopeful that it will continue.

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