Chinese "reverse-engineering"

leibowitz

Junior Member
While answering one of Asif's posts in another thread, I realized that a large part of China's recent defense success can be laid to a subtle military-industrial strategy China has adopted: production-line reverse-engineering.

When China imports a defense item (e.g. a Su-27) from abroad, it tries not only to learn how to manufacture said product, but, also, how to build a product line capable of manufacturing and even innovating/inventing future products in that category (a 4th-gen/5th-gen fighter assembly line).

Now that strategy is bearing fruit--most clearly in the cases of the J-15 and the J-20/31. But even aspects of the Chinese defense industry not directly touched by product imports--say the Type 052D and Type 095 programs--are impacted by this sort of thinking. In both those cases, China benefited from seeing how other nations built shipborne radar and quiet submarine subsystems, and was able to improve its own programs without copying anything.

This is something no other major arms importer has tried to do over the last twenty years.

This is quite good for China, because China has a PPP ratio--free capital, raw materials, and labor costs are all cheaper, which means that eventually, equivalent domestic R&D-->manufacturing firms can produce the same or even better than imports for a given cost of input. All it takes is R&D bureaus and manufacturing firms that operate to global defense industry standards, of which China is possibly only a few years away from building.

This is the advantage that let the Soviets keep up with the West in certain aspects of military hardware for a third of a century. This sort of improvement is a lot longer-lasting for a military than just having the latest and greatest toy, and the PLA's best-kept secret.
 

weig2000

Captain
Can you shed some light on how J-20/31 are reverse-engineered and from what? Thanks.

Now that strategy is bearing fruit--most clearly in the cases of the J-15 and the J-20/31. But even aspects of the Chinese defense industry not directly touched by product imports--say the Type 052D and Type 095 programs--are impacted by this sort of thinking. In both those cases, China benefited from seeing how other nations built shipborne radar and quiet submarine subsystems, and was able to improve its own programs without copying anything.
 

Lezt

Junior Member
mmhmmm

I think you are using the term reverse-engineering very lossly. License built is not reverse engineered; and licensed building had been a trick everyone used to catch up; such as India -> with the Centurion and the USSR with the Christie tank. So infact this had been done significantly over history.

I also think you are missing the point in R&D; the intent is the final product which reverse engineering can expedite. But R&D also trains competent engineers and scientists and provide byproduct research. So I am of no opinion of if it is good or bad.
 

jobjed

Captain
One day the Chinese will innovate and we will be the gods again.

Alright, just to clarify, he doesn't represent the majority of Chinese people. Delusions of grandeur are shared by members of every nation, so please don't mistake his behaviour to be representative of all Chinese people; I certainly don't share his vision of us being "gods". :p
 

Maggern

Junior Member
Hahaa I was going to say that technology does not make gods, but then I remembered Arthur C. Clarke:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
 

leibowitz

Junior Member
Can you shed some light on how J-20/31 are reverse-engineered and from what? Thanks.

That wasn't my claim. My claim was that China reverse-engineered how to build 4th and 5th-gen airframes and avionics with its Su-27 and Su-30 deals, and applied them to the J-20 and J-31 projects.

This is based on conversations I've had with folks working in SASTIND.

There's no shame in doing this. It's efficient project management; it avoids reinventing the wheel, basically.
 

jobjed

Captain
That wasn't my claim. My claim was that China reverse-engineered how to build 4th and 5th-gen airframes and avionics with its Su-27 and Su-30 deals, and applied them to the J-20 and J-31 projects.

This is based on conversations I've had with folks working in SASTIND.

There's no shame in doing this. It's efficient project management; it avoids reinventing the wheel, basically.

Wasn't that why China specifically asked for a production line instead of just a plain order for aircraft? So that they could gain expertise on both operating and producing high tech aircraft in addition to being equipped by them.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
That wasn't my claim. My claim was that China reverse-engineered how to build 4th and 5th-gen airframes and avionics with its Su-27 and Su-30 deals, and applied them to the J-20 and J-31 projects.

This is based on conversations I've had with folks working in SASTIND.

There's no shame in doing this. It's efficient project management; it avoids reinventing the wheel, basically.

You can make the argument regarding heavy fighter jet class airframe, but that's certainly not the case with avionics. The avionics part was due to the improvement in the local civilian industry and a lot of work with the Israelis.
 

leibowitz

Junior Member
You can make the argument regarding heavy fighter jet class airframe, but that's certainly not the case with avionics. The avionics part was due to the improvement in the local civilian industry and a lot of work with the Israelis.

Got it.
 
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