Yes, and if you leave your Easter basket out, the Easter Bunny will fill it with candy and goodies, at least as long as you live at home with your Mom???
Chinese purchase of Su-35
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Yes, and if you leave your Easter basket out, the Easter Bunny will fill it with candy and goodies, at least as long as you live at home with your Mom???
b787
Captain
Seriously wait i give a 99% you will see next year the Su-35 in PLAAF colors, the only possibility you will not is if either side backtracks and calls it off, but the contract was signed
I don't argue about your 99% confidence, but I do reject your statement of 1% possibility of backtracking and "either side".
For anyone to backtrack from or call off something, there must be something in the first place. That is plain logic. In this case it is about "a signed contract". Russian media has claimed that Sukhoi has stated that" a contract was signed", plain and straight. China did not say so, regardless how people want to interpret the words from the spokesperson of Chinese MoD. This is very unusual considering the high profile of such kind of deal going half open (ond side). Neither did the Russian media mentioned when (date), where (venue) and by whom (name of person) the contract was signed, let alone a publicized signing ceremony in front of camera, some photos at least?
So from the stand point of all outsiders including me and probably yourself, the only possible backtracker or off-caller is Russian media/Sukhoi, NOT China because China never admitted a contract in the first place. You may argue that China backtracks from a "secretly signed contract", but then the possibility of its existence is no better than its non-existence from evidence/proving perspective. And don't call me picky on proving because that is the only thing we can rely on as outsiders and we have zero access to hidden information.
b787
Captain
that is so unrealistic that only is real here, no company will do such thing, Rostec is not claiming China signed the contract without this being real, Chemezov only said they need to ratify it, this is a 2 billion contract, such things like ordering pizza examples are out of context, could the Chinese backtrack? yes they could, Algeria did it with MiG-29SMTs, when you talk about 2 billion dollars is not like buying pizza.
I give a 99% you will see to your dislike the Su-35s in PLAAF colors, there is a small chance of 1% that you will have your dream come true and no Su-35 is delivered, why? it is simple things can happen on the way, and i am not prophet, but the contract was signed you like it or not and regardless you believe it or not Rostec is not a media outlet, but a company that sells weapons, and they do not claim things which are not true because that is a 2 billion contract and it was a government to government deal
vesicles
Colonel
OK, 48 units so far. Let's look at Sukhoi family members. Su-35: 48 total units. Su-30: >500 units. Su-27: >800 units. So why so few Su-35? The Russians should show more confidence in its own planes before trying to sell it to others. Otherwise, it looks more like they are trying to dump it on someone else.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
I think the 500 SU 30, 800 SU 27 and other variants might have something to do with the small batches V. The Russian Air force has set mission needs like any other Air force. those are governed by Overall goals vs Areas of Responsibility vs Budget and political support vs existing capacity.
Mission Goal for the Russian Air Force is likely to remain in Air dominance over the Russian federation and extend it's power beyond.
Budget and political will, the Russians have a strongman and are pushing to be a resurgent player. But they are getting hit hard the US and EU has hit them but really smarting is the Oil Market.
Existing capacity, The mission lives of the 1300 Flankers in service are presumably still serviceable and with them the Russians also have a number of Fulcrums with service lives, and How much of a step up in capacities vs the existing fleet would these offer? If it's incremental rather then game changing then they might be a lower priority.
If they don't have a major gap or pressing mission need and the money is tight why spend superfluously?
b787
Captain
The Su-35 main advantage is the 117 engine, but the Su-30SM is said by UAC to have AESA radar and thrust vectoring, Su-35 has PESA radar.
Su-35 is primarily an air superiority interceptor, Su-30SM is a multirole, Su-34 s fighter strike aircraft.
Russia is not going to buy more than 96, because T-50 has better kinematics just to mention better climb rate, UAC claimed a 384m/s climb rate, Su-35 has not better climb rate than PAKFA
I didn't make the pizza example, you target the wrong person with wrong argument.
"Could the Chinese backtrack? yes they could". Read my post again. My objection was not "could" but rather "there is no contract to backtrack from in the first place".
"no company will do such thing". Again, "doing such thing" or not is not my statement of Rostec. I was saying "China didn't admit the contract". Whether Rostec did such thing or some Russian media did such thing for Rostec is not my concern.
you keep on claiming the contract was signed, but IGNORING my notion of what Chinese MoD said. Care to answer that?
No, Rostec is not a media outlet, that is true.
As you say it was a inter-government deal. Care to tell me what the Russian government says? A government official in the equivalent rank as the Chinese? Spokesperson of MoD, or MoFA etc?
BTW, "contract signed but not ratified", is that a new invention? This is the first time I have ever heard of it. I only know that a treaty by countries need to be signed by representatives and ratified by their parliament. Not a commercial contract. Who is to ratify a contract? Which body in Russia? And which one you think in China?
I find that you keep on dodging away from people's points or provided facts and raising unrelated matter (pizza in my case) and unsustained claims (deal with only one side acknowledged). This kind of acts only discourage people like me to take your words seriously. That behavior is very twisting.
A honest note to you, I do not object SU-35 to China, it is a capable bird. But I object your way of reasoning (or unreasoning).
This is my last exchange with you on this matter. I am really amazed by your way of argument.
b787
Captain
Your reasoning is not logic, a contract is a biding document, true, by ratify it means the go ahead is given, China has a bad track record with the J-11 license, plus add they copied without license the Su-33 and Su-27UB/MKK. Russia as a country has also people who see China not with the best of eyes. Sukhoi can not start building jets to get cancelled as the 200 J-11 license was, ratification is logic is you dig history.
Your line of reasoning is pretty not logic, the contract was signed, that is a fact Rostec is not making up things like most people say here, but the contract can be cancelled, it happens all the time, could it happen yes it can.
If you could be more realistic and see the contract was indeed signed but that this is not a bidding document to the end of the world, it is just a bidding document and both sides need to ratify it because Russia is not willing to spend money to build Su-35s and later for the Chinese to tell them well we do not want them, that is a thing any company will try to avoid.