Chinese military exports to other countries

Discussion in 'Strategic Defense' started by tphuang, May 29, 2009.

  1. Josh Luo
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    Josh Luo Junior Member
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    Another "donation." Is this another twisted ancient Chinese perspective of the emperor's show of supposed grandiosity? Instead of using material power to force and incentivize a foreign political entity to obey your will, you are simply giving out money and resources for free with absolutely no guarantee of reciprocity. It definitely gives the CCP face面子, but it does nothing in enhancing the material wellbeing of the workers who made these vehicles, nor are there any hopes that the Kyrgyz government (which has traditionally been a Russian ally and customer of Russian armament industry) would purchase Chinese military equipment in huge numbers. I know I sound like Trump, but the reality is that the ruling CCP seem to care more about face面子 and artificial rituals礼 than realistic material interests. Plus, the Kyrgyz are actually Turks who are sympathetic to the Uighur separatists, so these vehicles seem to have been donated to a potential rival.
     
  2. Bltizo
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    Why do you think such donations are made without backroom political horsetrading?
    Just because these donations are "free" doesn't mean they are not given or traded for value in other domains such as gaining political support, contacts, or bolstering ties to achieve other objectives.
     
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  3. Viktor Jav
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    Viktor Jav Junior Member
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    China is not the only country in the world that does this on a regular basis, Russia and the US too makes regular donations of military and semi-military equipment to third world country to strengthen diplomatic ties and relations. These are things that no amount of money can really buy.
     
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  4. Biscuits
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    Biscuits Junior Member
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    It’s a favor that costs nothing.

    You can say it is somewhat similar to “gifts” from the emperor, but you are completely wrong in why these “gifts” were issued.

    The point is to tie up smaller neutral actors and force them to choose a side. If Kyrgyzstan accepts the gift and then openly goes against China, people around them will consider them opportunist and vindicative. Third world countries who often rely on such favors from larger powers cannot afford that reputation.

    And again, giving favors that cost nothing both makes you popular and costs nothing.

    China was able to make nearly all Islamic world countries condemn America’s statement against China’s war on terror, even close US allies Saudi and turkey.

    The ones who are overly concerned with saving face has always been the west (and the Qing, but they aren’t here today). They would rather make an enemy out of everyone than speak softly, because they’re afraid of losing face by asking nicely. They would prefer to rob and sanction a country instead of having normal ties, because they don’t want to lose face from granting reciprocal favors. Even at home, their regimes are afraid of people from different cultures because they do not want to lose face from learning to understand others.
     
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  5. Josh Luo
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    Josh Luo Junior Member
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    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/anti-chinese-mood-growing-kyrgyzstan/

    ODR
    Is anti-Chinese mood growing in Kyrgyzstan?
    A series of protests in Kyrgyzstan point to growing public feeling against China, one of the country’s biggest investors.


    Kamila Eshaliyeva
    13 March 2019

    In December 2018, members of the Kyrgyz nationalist Kyrk Choro organisation held their first protest action outside the Chinese Embassy in Bishkek. According to media reports, around 50 people turned up to demand that the government deport illegal migrants within a month — and to stop the persecution of ethnic Kyrgyz in China.

    A few weeks later, a second protest - this time spontaneous - took place on 7 January this year, on Bishkek’s central Ala-Too Square, where witnesses report seeing about 300 people. The aim of this action? Activists once again demanded that “illegal” migrants be deported. Representatives of Kyrk Choro stated that they were not involved in this protest.

    Then, on 17 January, another anti-Chinese protest was organised in central Bishkek. Its organisers demanded that the Kyrgyz government check Chinese citizens’ work permits, lower the foreign workers’ quota, and cancel the country’s debt to China (approximately $1.7 billion, according to the Finance Ministry); some protesters even demanded a ban on Kyrgyz women marrying Chinese men. The demo ended with the arrest of 21 protesters: the police claimed that the activists were obstructing traffic and using foul language.

    This series of increasingly well-attended protests has provoked discussion on Kyrgyz social media — unsurprising at a time when public fears about the detention of ethnic Kyrgyz in Xinjiang are high.

    But two points so far remain undiscussed: how far do the protesters’ fears match up to official data? And what is the relationship between those organising these protests and Kyrgyz state institutions?

    I contacted Amanbol Babakulov, a Kyrgyz opposition activist who organised the most recent rally, to find out more. Speaking on a TV talk show prior to the protest, Babakukov had called for a commission to expose illegal migrants working for Kyrgyz businesses. The first to be inspected was the Djunda oil refinery in Kara-Balta, in the north of the country, where 300 Chinese citizens are employed.

    “We went there a few days later,” says Babakulov, “and discovered that the workers had been warned of our visit and there were no illegal migrants to be seen. We checked everyone’s ID and visas, but there were no illegals.”

    This was the starting point for the 17 January protest. People started organising via a WhatsApp group after Babakulov gave out his phone number during the talk show. After that, all sorts of people started calling him, mostly to find out when the next anti-migrant protest would take place. The day before the protest, roughly 500 people were registered in the WhatsApp group.

    After the speeches finished on 17 January, a group of five people were invited to meet Kyrgyzstan’s Vice-Speaker Mirlan Bakirov, who promised to set up a commission to resolve the issue of illegal migrants. The activists then returned to the square, where Babakulov tried to tell the crowd about Bakirov’s proposal, but instead the crowd set off towards the White House (the President’s residence). The police began dispersing and arresting the most active protesters.

    Later, several Kyrgyz news agencies published reports claiming that the demonstrations had been sponsored by ex-president Almazbek Atambayev. One website published an article stating that some politicians believed Atambayev was a member of the Kyrk Choro organisation. But while Amanbol Babakulov denies any connection to either Atambayev or current president Sooronbay Jeenbekov, rumours are still flying around the country’s social media.

    ...
     
  6. plawolf
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    A handful of probably the same people turning up again and again amounts to ‘well attended’ demonstrations? What a load of BS. Typical of the kind of pathetic propaganda that smacks of murky western intelligence organised and promoted fake news psych-ops.

    Is this the garbage poison typical of what the ‘free’ media is peddling in HK? If so, little wonder you have radicalisation of the young and naive.
     
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  7. Jura
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    Equation likes this.
  8. Xsizor
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    Xsizor Junior Member
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    HK ? Protestors are young and naive ?!
    Good sir, I politely object.
    They are religious fanatics.period. Just read their first names/ surnames - Josua, Anthony, Steven...
    They evoke the same response in me as do the jihadists and their surnames.
    I don't care about religion in general but when ppl get brainwashed under fairytales written thousands of years ago and decide to spit on your motherland, playing to the tune of foreign "agents" - they become a "terrorist and religious fanatic". I'd choose jihadists over these pests anyday tho.
     
  9. Jura
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