Chinese-European transport helo project

Re: z-15 chinese black hawk?

tphuang said:

well come back, Popeye!

We know that there is a Z-15 designation handed out. Other than that, I'm not sure which helicopter it's been assigned to. Maybe it's EC-175 or maybe it's CMH or maybe those two helicopters are the same. Maybe it's one of those Z-11, EC-120 things. Where China gets experience from co-developing with Eurocopter and then develop a helicopter of its own in the same class. I don't know, China tends to keep the helicopter things even more wrapped up than fighters, because it can actually get away with using Western engines for its military helicopters by just denying its existence and saying that it's purchased for civilian models.

Click to expand...

Thanks alot! That's good info. Did not know that they could ue the import engines. That make a big difference. Now I understand the secrecry. Thanks again....

Re: z-15 chinese black hawk?

bd popeye said:

Thanks alot! That's good info. Did not know that they could ue the import engines. That make a big difference. Now I understand the secrecry. Thanks again....

Click to expand...

yeah, that's P&W Canada for you. Apparently, it's been getting through the export control under the guise of being used as the engine for AB-139 and CMH. I'm talking about PT6C-67C, which is being used on Z-10.

Re: z-15 chinese black hawk?

I do hope that's not the helicopter to replace the mi17 series, but rather complement it. Perhaps in pure lifting power it can match mi8 / early mi17 models but its internal space is smaller. And mi17s ability to ferry 24 equipped troops can not be matched with this model. That being said, having twice as many copters to carry half as many troops each has its benefits too. It does look like a very good multipurpose design and would love to see it in the hundreds in the future PLA, as long as its not replacing mi17s. China is lacking helicopters as it is, first it should get the total numbers up before it starts replacing older models. (as long as they can fly, of course)

Re: z-15 chinese black hawk?

tphuang said:

well come back, Popeye!

We know that there is a Z-15 designation handed out. Other than that, I'm not sure which helicopter it's been assigned to. Maybe it's EC-175 or maybe it's CMH or maybe those two helicopters are the same. Maybe it's one of those Z-11, EC-120 things. Where China gets experience from co-developing with Eurocopter and then develop a helicopter of its own in the same class. I don't know, China tends to keep the helicopter things even more wrapped up than fighters, because it can actually get away with using Western engines for its military helicopters by just denying its existence and saying that it's purchased for civilian models.

Click to expand...

That's exactly the piont !!! There are so many rumours gooing on once regarding a transport version of the Z-10, which noe seems to be the CMH (or was alt least taken over by) ... now the EC-175 in cooperation with Eurocopter which is sometimes labeled Z-15 and then there are rumours about yet another helicopter programe in the 10t class to replace the Z-8 and Hips !

Additional if the designation Z-15 is valid ... what are then the "missing" Z-12 and Z-13 ????

Just again: "China tends to keep the helicopter things even more wrapped up than fighters" ... and as I said before: these are so interesting times !:china:

Cheers, Deino

Re: z-15 chinese black hawk?

tphuang said:

yeah, that's P&W Canada for you. Apparently, it's been getting through the export control under the guise of being used as the engine for AB-139 and CMH. I'm talking about PT6C-67C, which is being used on Z-10.

Click to expand...

Let's face this. P&W, GE and RR(Rolls Royce) make the most reliable aircraft engines in the world. The PLAAF is smart to use them. That alone would increase the life of the aircraft a great deal. Good move!.

Re: z-15 chinese black hawk?

okay, I found the latest artist's impression of the EC175 and it looks strikingly similar to the pics posted here. There are also noticeable changes compared to the picture of a model found on sinodefence. here it is:





However, just because these pics appear to be the same helo, we still haven't seen a source for what was posted at the beginning of this thread--it could just as easily just be some wishful thinking on someone's part. Then again, it isn't hard to imagine this helo entering service in PLA, PLAF or PLAN.

Re: z-15 chinese black hawk?

walter said:

okay, I found the latest artist's impression of the EC175 and it looks strikingly similar to the pics posted here. There are also noticeable changes compared to the picture of a model found on sinodefence. here it is:

[qimg]http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=11895[/qimg]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

However, just because these pics appear to be the same helo, we still haven't seen a source for what was posted at the beginning of this thread--it could just as easily just be some wishful thinking on someone's part. Then again, it isn't hard to imagine this helo entering service in PLA, PLAF or PLAN.

Click to expand...

Is it just me or does that photo look a bit re-touched ?

Also it seems a strange design for a combat helicopter

Re: z-15 chinese black hawk?

bd popeye said:

Let's face this. P&W, GE and RR(Rolls Royce) make the most reliable aircraft engines in the world. The PLAAF is smart to use them. That alone would increase the life of the aircraft a great deal. Good move!.

Click to expand...

also, fuel efficient too. That's what it's basically doing with Y-8F600 too. It calls it a civilian aircraft, but we all know it's for military purposes. And of course, they are doing this through Canada, since the export controls aren't as scrutinized.

As for EC-175, it's not a combat helicopter. It's a civilian helicopter that China will probably convert into doing some kind of military role. Make no mistake, China's main use for this is civlian duties, but it will probably also make military versions of it.

Re: z-15 chinese black hawk?

I agree along the lines of FreeAsia2000. The pic does look retouched and that helo does not look military at all in that picture. It looks like a corprate helo. You know..the kind that ferries CEO's and other head cheese types around. But..helo's are very versitale. So no telling what sort of varaint the PLA will come up with.

Re: z-15 chinese black hawk?

Totoro said:

I do hope that's not the helicopter to replace the mi17 series, but rather complement it. Perhaps in pure lifting power it can match mi8 / early mi17 models but its internal space is smaller. And mi17s ability to ferry 24 equipped troops can not be matched with this model. That being said, having twice as many copters to carry half as many troops each has its benefits too. It does look like a very good multipurpose design and would love to see it in the hundreds in the future PLA, as long as its not replacing mi17s. China is lacking helicopters as it is, first it should get the total numbers up before it starts replacing older models. (as long as they can fly, of course)

Click to expand...

Purchases of the mi-17 v7 will stop very soon. with the introduction of the z-8a into PLA service, the mi-17s days are numbered. Right now, the v-7 model still has superior performance to the z-8. But the z-8 has more carrying capacity(9000kg and 38 soldiers) and a new model z-8f is set to coem out, with new pratt and witney engines.

Btw,
We may be seeing a test flight of a CMH this year, and deliveries may begin in four years.