Yeah, I think the demonstration of TVC in flight is more significant for what it says about China’s mastery of the finer points of aerospace technologies than just the TVC in of itself. (I don’t think the con-di nozzle is that noteworthy though. Likely they’ve had the technology for a while, they just never felt the need to use it).
Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
They'd have been pretty alone in that assessment though. By a rough count, some 20 major afterburning engine designs have been introduced since 1970, of which just 4 (including the WS-10 family) did not adopt a con-di nozzle. And one of those (RB.199) probably didn't primarily because it would have interfered with the thrust reverser. There aren't many other solutions which come this close (~80%) to universal adoption in supersonic fighters of the past 48 years without getting into trivial things like 'radar'.
China has only had one indigenously developed military grade high thrust turbofan though. I imagine a desire for simplicity and risk reduction during the early stages of development played a role in the decision to not pursue a con-di nozzle. It’s hard to say what other considerations could have gone into that decision, but the basic technology itself probably wasn’t beyond China’s capabilities by the early 2000s. They certainly had to know how to operate and maintain con-di nozzles with the AL-31s they used on the J10s and J-11As.
by78
General
Could you not post anything from Minnie Chan again? This thread is not for trolling.
I have to agree that they've come a long way, not so long ago the debate was around whether the WS-10 had a fadec that worked and why J10s were stuck with Russian engines. The J10 TVC demo like the J20 a few years back are nice coming out parties for the chinese aerospace engineers' hard work.
Dizasta1
Senior Member
From Mini Chan's article
Forgive the quoting of this author, but I felt the need to express my views on this. China, nor Russia can afford to have differences, "irrespective of" any and all geo-political matters that stand before them. The stakes now, are irreversibly high, for either country to have any differences (not that any exist). The reason why I say this, and I must remind both Russia and China, is that your adversary seeks to exploit every speck of weakness, to their advantage. So be on guard, be honest and straight in your affairs with your friends and allies. Because if you are not, the enemy shows "NO MERCY" when exploits differences between allies. If it finds none, they seek to create differences. Good friends are hard to find, these days and you will not find a better friend and ally than Russia, dear China.
And I say this, as a Pakistani, your "other" great friend and ally.
Forgive the quoting of this author, but I felt the need to express my views on this. China, nor Russia can afford to have differences, "irrespective of" any and all geo-political matters that stand before them. The stakes now, are irreversibly high, for either country to have any differences (not that any exist). The reason why I say this, and I must remind both Russia and China, is that your adversary seeks to exploit every speck of weakness, to their advantage. So be on guard, be honest and straight in your affairs with your friends and allies. Because if you are not, the enemy shows "NO MERCY" when exploits differences between allies. If it finds none, they seek to create differences. Good friends are hard to find, these days and you will not find a better friend and ally than Russia, dear China.
And I say this, as a Pakistani, your "other" great friend and ally.
Dizasta1
Senior Member
I say this with cautious optimism, it seems that China is on the verge of having developed an engine which meets the requirements of its premier stealth fighter, J-20! It's only a matter of time before J-20s enter full scale production, with the engine that is meant to power it.
I certainly think that this could be a turning point for China. If indeed engine design, performance and endurance has reached and/or surpassed the Western or Russian engines. Than this certainly is a breakthrough which would be game changing for China.
On a different note, I sure would like to see a trilateral committee for between China, Pakistan and Russia, on engine research design and development. Pakistan has a lot it can learn from Russia and China. And the latter countries can benefit enormously by working together.
I think both China and Russia are quite cautious of each other in many more ways than shown. Sharing technology is fine and trade is good. But sharing such sensitive technologies will be out of the question. Russia will be understandably unwilling to share with China and vice versa. They were concerned about 117S sold to China with Su-35 but wanted to sell the fighter. China has got 117S equivalents when they took delivery of Su-35 but that's not to say it won't be carefully examined and have good ideas copied if there are any. WS-15 are on entirely different level and comparable to Russia's Project. 30. Neither side will likely sell those products to each other for along time, let alone share the know-how. Cooperation is great but caution is always exercised when it comes to the crown jewels of their respective military industries.