Chinese Engine Development

DaTang cavalry

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Liu Daxiang, an academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, explained the current status of aviation engine development.


On July 7, Liu Dasheng, an academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, stated for the first time in a public lecture that China’s fourth-generation military small bypass ratio aero engine project is progressing smoothly and will be finalized in the next three to five years. The media believes that this is the fourth generation of China. Military small bypasses have a clearer report on the progress of the aero engine project for the first time.

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DaTang cavalry

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7月7日,工程院院士刘大响在一次公开讲座中首次表示我国第四代军用小涵道比航空发动机项目进展顺利,将在未来3至五年内设计定型,媒体认为,这是有关我国第四代军用小涵道比航空发动机项目进展第一次有比较明确的报道,刘大响院士是我国航空动力发展的“泰斗级人物”,它主持完成了我国发动机高空模拟试车台主体设备设计、模拟试验技术研究和总体联合调试,取得重大科研成果,特别是负责完成了我国新一代发动机动力、以及高性能推进系统工程预研和先进核心机技术研究等重要项目,是我国航空发动机进行先期预先研究策略和计划(类似于美国IHPTET计划)的主要推动者,他的发言极具分量,真实性毋庸置疑。据了解,目前我国第四代军用小涵道比航空发动机项目主要包括两个型号项目,一个是大推力小涵道比涡扇发动机项目——涡扇-15,另一个是中等推力小涵道比涡扇发动机项目——涡扇-19,按照这两个型号的发展进度,显然这里指的是前者。

Academician Liu Dasheng is the "master of the class" in the development of aviation power in China.
He presided over the completion of the main engine equipment design, simulation test technology research and overall joint commissioning of China's engine high-altitude simulation test-bed, and achieved major scientific research results, especially responsible for completing China's new generation of engine power, high-performance propulsion system engineering pre-research and advanced core. Important projects such as machine technology research are the main promoters of China's aero-engine advanced pre-study strategies and plans (similar to the US IHPTET program). His speech is extremely weighty and the authenticity is beyond doubt.
It is understood that China's fourth-generation military small bypass ratio aircraft engine project mainly includes two model projects, one is the large thrust small bypass ratio turbofan engine project - WS-15, and the other is medium thrust small bypass ratio turbofan engine project WS-19, according to the development progress of these two models, it is obvious that the refers to WS-15

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taxiya

Brigadier
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To me it is another round of buzz.

The mentioned presentation/meeting did happen. But all the interpretation of WS-15 (4th gen engine) were the words from netizens such as QQ poster. None of these posters directly quoted Liu Daxiang's own words. The photo of the meeting here is authentic, so the very original source is indeed from a person present in the conference, however no such person claimed Mr. Liu said anything about 4th gen engine or WS-15.

I have read the original QQ post, from the wording, it sounds like the poster is inferring by his own words. Why didn't the poster say "I was in the meeting and I heard Mr. Liu said things about 4th gen engine"? The poster does not need to reveal his identity by doing so.

I am not judging WS-15's progress. But I am uneasy and skeptical of these kind of seemingly credible leak, looks more like a stunt to gather attention by the posters (many of them) using credible person (Mr. Liu).

P.S. there is larger version of the photo which does not list any Chinese engines on the screen, all are European, Russian and American. So the photo does not suggest anything either.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
He clearly identified it as WS 15 google translation of the entire article. Seem like he is telling be patient developing new aero, engine specially if it generational jump like WS 15, take a long time.But progress are being made.And he detail the progress. Seem to be credible and sound advice. the first picture is convincing authentic He show sketches graph, curve etc I have no problem using stock US photos to give illustration of what is he talking about

The 涡20's turbofan 15 engine is finally reliable: the academician personally acknowledges the prototype within five years.
0


  Liu Daxiang, an academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, explained the current status of aviation engine development.

  On July 7, Liu Dasheng, an academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, stated for the first time in a public lecture that China’s fourth-generation military small bypass ratio aero engine project is progressing smoothly and will be finalized in the next three to five years. The media believes that this is the fourth generation of China. For the first time, the military small-bypass project has a relatively clear report on the progress of the aero-engine project. Academician Liu Dasheng is the "lead character" of China's aviation power development. It presided over the completion of the design and simulation test technology of the main equipment of China's engine high-altitude simulation test-bed. And the overall joint commissioning, and achieved major scientific research results, especially responsible for the completion of China's new generation of engine power, high-performance propulsion system engineering pre-research and advanced core machine technology research and other important projects, is China's aviation engine for advanced advance research strategy and plan (similar to the main promoter of the US IHPTET program), his speech is extremely weighty and the authenticity is beyond doubt. It is understood that China's fourth-generation military small bypass ratio aircraft engine project mainly includes two model projects, one is the large thrust small bypass ratio turbofan engine project - turbofan-15, and the other is medium thrust small duct Compared with the turbofan engine project - turbofan-19, according to the development progress of these two models, it is obvious that the former refers to the former.

0


  As the heart of the aircraft, the aero engine directly affects the overall performance, reliability and economy of the aircraft. It is an important symbol of a country's technological, industrial and defense capabilities. The fourth-generation aero-engines have greatly improved the thrust-to-weight ratio from the previous generation, from the 8-level one-time directly to the 10th level. Typical fourth-generation aircraft engines include the US F-119, F-120, F-135, Russian products 30, and the European EJ200, among which the F-119 is the power equipment system for the fourth-generation fighter F-22.

It is the most iconic achievement of today's aerodynamic technology. However, the development of the fourth-generation engine is not from thin air, it is the result of decades of research, and the United States began research in the field of fourth-generation aero engines. In the late 1980s, from the aviation engine development plan since the 1980s, it can be seen that the research in this field in the United States has shown a leap-forward development. From 1989 to 2005, the number of patent applications was small and the gap was small. The number of patent applications was basically kept in single digits every year. During this period, the United States developed the IHPTET program for the development of aero-engine technology and began the intensive development phase of the fourth-generation aircraft engine.

0


  There are two reasons for the lack of patents during this period: first, the long-term development cycle of aero-engines, and the slower output of the results; second, the research and development of aero-engines is related to the defense strength of a country, and the initial results are often treated in the defense of national defense. However, during the subsequent period from 2006 to 2012, the related patents of the F-119 engine were come out. This is the rich return from the IHPTET program. Can China's turbofan-15 engine ensure that it will be used in 2025? ? The answer is yes. Our technical reserves are sufficient. Similar to the IHPTET plan, our aviation engine pre-research plan has achieved several major leaps in China's engine technology.

The first is to complete the design and manufacture of low aspect ratio blades. The low aspect ratio blade is a wide-chord blade, which widens the chord length compared with the narrow-chord blade, shortens the length of the compressor, and improves the resistance to foreign objects, fatigue resistance and stall margin. After entering the engineering prototype stage in 2016, the turbofan-15 engine adjusted the design specifications. Using a new generation of wide-chord blades, the number of turbofan-15 compressor parts can be reduced, reducing production and manufacturing costs.

0


  Secondly, China has already realized the design and manufacture of hollow composite blade. At present, a certain type of turbofan-1XX engine has been put into test on the No. 2021 歼-20 prototype. This engine has already begun to use hollow composite blade technology. The above-mentioned composite material and process fan blade not only significantly reduces the quality of the blade itself, but also reduces the quality of its containment ring, disk and the entire rotor system, and has low cost, anti-vibration (anti-vibration) performance and damage resistance. Strong characteristics, played a key role in solving the problem of turbofan-15 machine vibration.

Third, China has achieved comprehensive results in a series of pilot technologies such as the second generation digital electronic control system, the overall leaf ring design, the multi-inclined divergent cooling flame tube structure, the new generation plate turbine disk design and manufacturing technology, and the three-dimensional thrust vector nozzle. After breaking through the vibration problem of the whole machine in 2016, the design index of the turbofan-15 model prototype was adjusted on the basis of the original, and the overall performance requirements were improved. These are based on the basic technology. Concentrate on breakthroughs in progress.

0


  Undoubtedly, in the world's only four large-thrust fourth-generation military engine projects, China's current position is relatively backward, but aero-engine technology is a highly accumulating experimental science, without a large number of technical verification. It is impossible to have a good result. The Russian product(Izdiye?) 30 has gone from being developed to the current test flight for nearly 30 years. It can be described as struggling. Therefore, the development of advanced aero engines in China is also subject to various twists and turns. This is normal and needs to be calm. In the face of the engine development world, there is no one-step, only one step at a time to move forward.


THE END
 
Last edited:

Figaro

Senior Member
Registered Member
Does "finalized" mean ready for production (induction in combat units) in 3-5 years or "finalized" just for flight testing?
 

Tirdent

Junior Member
Registered Member
One note: while Russia has intermittently worked on various advanced engine projects in general since the early 1990s (AL-41F/Izd. 20 etc.), it's inaccurate to describe the Izd. 30 engine in particular as being in development for 30 years. It was launched along with the wider PAK-FA project in 2002.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
He clearly identified it as WS 15 google translation of the entire article. Seem like he is telling be patient developing new aero, engine specially if it generational jump like WS 15, take a long time.But progress are being made.And he detail the progress. Seem to be credible and sound advice. the first picture is convincing authentic He show sketches graph, curve etc I have no problem using stock US photos to give illustration of what is he talking about

The 涡20's turbofan 15 engine is finally reliable: the academician personally acknowledges the prototype within five years.
0


  Liu Daxiang, an academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, explained the current status of aviation engine development.

  On July 7, Liu Dasheng, an academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, stated for the first time in a public lecture that China’s fourth-generation military small bypass ratio aero engine project is progressing smoothly and will be finalized in the next three to five years. The media believes that this is the fourth generation of China. For the first time, the military small-bypass project has a relatively clear report on the progress of the aero-engine project. Academician Liu Dasheng is the "lead character" of China's aviation power development. It presided over the completion of the design and simulation test technology of the main equipment of China's engine high-altitude simulation test-bed. And the overall joint commissioning, and achieved major scientific research results, especially responsible for the completion of China's new generation of engine power, high-performance propulsion system engineering pre-research and advanced core machine technology research and other important projects, is China's aviation engine for advanced advance research strategy and plan (similar to the main promoter of the US IHPTET program), his speech is extremely weighty and the authenticity is beyond doubt. It is understood that China's fourth-generation military small bypass ratio aircraft engine project mainly includes two model projects, one is the large thrust small bypass ratio turbofan engine project - turbofan-15, and the other is medium thrust small duct Compared with the turbofan engine project - turbofan-19, according to the development progress of these two models, it is obvious that the former refers to the former.

0


  As the heart of the aircraft, the aero engine directly affects the overall performance, reliability and economy of the aircraft. It is an important symbol of a country's technological, industrial and defense capabilities. The fourth-generation aero-engines have greatly improved the thrust-to-weight ratio from the previous generation, from the 8-level one-time directly to the 10th level. Typical fourth-generation aircraft engines include the US F-119, F-120, F-135, Russian products 30, and the European EJ200, among which the F-119 is the power equipment system for the fourth-generation fighter F-22.

It is the most iconic achievement of today's aerodynamic technology. However, the development of the fourth-generation engine is not from thin air, it is the result of decades of research, and the United States began research in the field of fourth-generation aero engines. In the late 1980s, from the aviation engine development plan since the 1980s, it can be seen that the research in this field in the United States has shown a leap-forward development. From 1989 to 2005, the number of patent applications was small and the gap was small. The number of patent applications was basically kept in single digits every year. During this period, the United States developed the IHPTET program for the development of aero-engine technology and began the intensive development phase of the fourth-generation aircraft engine.

0


  There are two reasons for the lack of patents during this period: first, the long-term development cycle of aero-engines, and the slower output of the results; second, the research and development of aero-engines is related to the defense strength of a country, and the initial results are often treated in the defense of national defense. However, during the subsequent period from 2006 to 2012, the related patents of the F-119 engine were come out. This is the rich return from the IHPTET program. Can China's turbofan-15 engine ensure that it will be used in 2025? ? The answer is yes. Our technical reserves are sufficient. Similar to the IHPTET plan, our aviation engine pre-research plan has achieved several major leaps in China's engine technology.

The first is to complete the design and manufacture of low aspect ratio blades. The low aspect ratio blade is a wide-chord blade, which widens the chord length compared with the narrow-chord blade, shortens the length of the compressor, and improves the resistance to foreign objects, fatigue resistance and stall margin. After entering the engineering prototype stage in 2016, the turbofan-15 engine adjusted the design specifications. Using a new generation of wide-chord blades, the number of turbofan-15 compressor parts can be reduced, reducing production and manufacturing costs.

0


  Secondly, China has already realized the design and manufacture of hollow composite blade. At present, a certain type of turbofan-1XX engine has been put into test on the No. 2021 歼-20 prototype. This engine has already begun to use hollow composite blade technology. The above-mentioned composite material and process fan blade not only significantly reduces the quality of the blade itself, but also reduces the quality of its containment ring, disk and the entire rotor system, and has low cost, anti-vibration (anti-vibration) performance and damage resistance. Strong characteristics, played a key role in solving the problem of turbofan-15 machine vibration.

Third, China has achieved comprehensive results in a series of pilot technologies such as the second generation digital electronic control system, the overall leaf ring design, the multi-inclined divergent cooling flame tube structure, the new generation plate turbine disk design and manufacturing technology, and the three-dimensional thrust vector nozzle. After breaking through the vibration problem of the whole machine in 2016, the design index of the turbofan-15 model prototype was adjusted on the basis of the original, and the overall performance requirements were improved. These are based on the basic technology. Concentrate on breakthroughs in progress.

0


  Undoubtedly, in the world's only four large-thrust fourth-generation military engine projects, China's current position is relatively backward, but aero-engine technology is a highly accumulating experimental science, without a large number of technical verification. It is impossible to have a good result. The Russian product(Izdiye?) 30 has gone from being developed to the current test flight for nearly 30 years. It can be described as struggling. Therefore, the development of advanced aero engines in China is also subject to various twists and turns. This is normal and needs to be calm. In the face of the engine development world, there is no one-step, only one step at a time to move forward.


THE END
Just clarify. I have read the texts that you just posted. They are the content of the QQ post whose author is not Mr. Liu. The poster clearly said "WS-15" without saying it is Mr. Liu's words. To me, that is the poster's interpretation or insertion of his wish (if I play critical), not comment of Mr. Liu (the true reliable source).

I just want to say that one should not mix up his own thought with words of others, the original poster of the buzz apparently failed to do. Leave the room for others to judge by themselves independently.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is the only thing that is undisputable during the conference. See the full resolution for what was Mr. Liu presented. This is not to denial that he said something else. But if somebody who was there is willing to say "I heard Mr. Liu said ABC", then I am willing to believe ABC.
105749bg6f3ppp4l4l4tn0.jpg
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
One note: while Russia has intermittently worked on various advanced engine projects in general since the early 1990s (AL-41F/Izd. 20 etc.), it's inaccurate to describe the Izd. 30 engine in particular as being in development for 30 years. It was launched along with the wider PAK-FA project in 2002.
Just a note, it is the poster's word talking about Izd.30, not necessarily anything to do with Mr. Liu. Another reason I don't like the style of the poster saying lots of things mixed from various sources.
 
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