Chinese Engine Development

asif iqbal said:

Hopefully the CJ-1000 opens a new avenue for China aviation engines

And it’s not just about the engine

Rolls Royce always come out on top not because they build brilliant engines but because also they achieve a edge over competitors when it comes to after sales support

Every single operating Rolls Royce engine has a a series of sensors throughout which monitors temperature, pressure and flow which is relayed via satellite to a control centre in derby England, 1 minute after take off all the data is monitored at the centre and any informalitys addressed

This kind of after sales service is built into service contract which could last up to 20
Years

This is just one example of the kind of market China is trying to enter, very very tough

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You are right, the large passenger jet engine market is very tough to enter and there is such a large knowledge base within the already established players making it difficult to catch up. China is one of the few countries that has the advantage of a sizeable domestic market and state controlled airlines. That should give them some time and market share to get a foot in the market. Even then I don't think that is enough to capture the entire home market. The home market only eases engine development, Chinese engine makers would still have to work hard on being market competitive.

Personally I don't expect China to be a top player in both quantitative and qualitative as aspects of large passenger jet engines within the next 20 years. In the long run I think China will make the transition as they are taking the necessary steps. In the near term they are still trying to establish a complete supply chain at home and we can expect to see a continuous stream of developments. Even 20 years would be too soon to establish a globally competitive player since China is trying to build the entire supply chain, not just design, assembly, and customer support. Military engines should have an easier time.

asif iqbal said:

Hopefully the CJ-1000 opens a new avenue for China aviation engines

And it’s not just about the engine

Rolls Royce always come out on top not because they build brilliant engines but because also they achieve a edge over competitors when it comes to after sales support

Every single operating Rolls Royce engine has a a series of sensors throughout which monitors temperature, pressure and flow which is relayed via satellite to a control centre in derby England, 1 minute after take off all the data is monitored at the centre and any informalitys addressed

This kind of after sales service is built into service contract which could last up to 20
Years

This is just one example of the kind of market China is trying to enter, very very tough

Click to expand...

Are you sure? MH370 had RR engines but I don't recall reading any reports of RR being alerted to engine issues.

SinoSoldier said:

Are you sure? MH370 had RR engines but I don't recall reading any reports of RR being alerted to engine issues.

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MH370 didn't suffer engine problems

SinoSoldier said:

Are you sure? MH370 had RR engines but I don't recall reading any reports of RR being alerted to engine issues.

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As always pointed out, there was no indication that MH370 had engine problems.

What more, these diagnostics are more for the benefit of group crews when turning a plane over, and would offer little help to an aircrew in flight of engine problems develop.

I am not even aware of there even being a mechanism in place to allow RR to inform the pilots if they spot something out of the ordinary with the engines in flight.

asif iqbal said:

Every single operating Rolls Royce engine has a a series of sensors throughout which monitors temperature, pressure and flow which is relayed via satellite to a control centre in derby England, 1 minute after take off all the data is monitored at the centre and any informalitys addressed

This kind of after sales service is built into service contract which could last up to 20
Years

Click to expand...

If the MH370 had Rolls Royce engines and their maintenance team was able to track them, then how come no one heard from Rolls Royce when the whole world is searching for the missing airliner?

Maybe RR does know where MH370 lies, if they can monitor the engines health via satellite if they do please tell.

What RR has is what is known as Model Predictive Maintenance and is starting to catch up in various industries.
What it does is, it sends a data dump every hour or so of the data collected by various sensors within the product.
It does not provide live feed so they would not know when a critical failure happened or where it happen since it is not connected to any GPS system.

Can we move on from the off-topic discussions

FYI


ACARS
ACARS is the acronym for . It’s an automated communication system used by commercial planes to transmit and receive messages from ground facilities (airline, maintenance department, aircraft or system manufacturer, etc). Therefore, along with the general information about the flight (callsign, speed, altitude, position, etc), these messages may contain what we can consider systems health checks.

ACARS is a service: airlines have to pay for it. According to the information available to date, it looks like Malaysia Airlines subscribed only to engine health monitoring that enabled MH370 to send data to Rolls Royce.

The ACARS system aboard MH370 was switched off some minutes before the transponder.

ACARS rely on VHF frequencies (indeed, you can track planes and decode messages with a simple radio receiver tuned on the proper ACARS frequencies and a software running on your computer) or SATCOM (SATellite COMmunication).

Although this is still debated, according to several pilots the ACARS transmissions can be switched off by the pilot from inside the cockpit, by disabling the use of VHF and SATCOM channels. This means that the system is not completely switched off, but it can’t transmit to the receiving stations.

SATCOM
SATCOM is a radio system that uses a constellation of satellites used to trasmit voice, data or both. As said, ACARS can make use of SATCOM to transmit its data to ground stations. Dealing with ACARS, the SATCOM system used by MH370 was linked to the network.

Inmarsat is a British satellite telecommunications company, which offers global, mobile services through a constellation of three geostationary satellites.

The system relies on “pings”.

SamuraiBlue said:

What RR has is what is known as Model Predictive Maintenance and is starting to catch up in various industries.
What it does is, it sends a data dump every hour or so of the data collected by various sensors within the product.
It does not provide live feed so they would not know when a critical failure happened or where it happen since it is not connected to any GPS system.

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Where would the collected data be stored? internally within the plane? like an equivalent of an engine 'black box'? or are you saying it transmits out every hour?

kwaigonegin said:

Where would the collected data be stored? internally within the plane? like an equivalent of an engine 'black box'? or are you saying it transmits out every hour?

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The sensors are all attached via thermocouples to the “brain” of the engine, the brain box then pings the data via satellite to the control centre in England at Derby

The control room at Derby has senior engineer who at anyone time monitor between 8,000 and 10,000 engines 24/7 365

The data appears in graph form and any discrepancys are singled out and investigated

They have direct contact with pilot, airline, airport and RR teams at airport on the ground

The engineers work with the pilot to rectify any anolomys and in worst case provide back engines and spares if need within hours anywhere in the world

The data that is collected can be pulled up from data archive going back 10 years at the derby control centre but requesting historical data requires permission from higher up and takes longer

That way they can see specific trends in data for specific engines and anolomys might be just the way the engine performs

I know this because i know someone who works there and it took 2 years of application to get the job having spent 5 years in the Royal Navy with hands on engine maintenance

Most of the guys are ex-service men who have years of experience from helicopters and warships

Rolls Royce take apprentices at 16 all the way to 65 and then their children start at 16 and so on, there is 3 generations of same family there

There’s a reason why RR is the best it’s the culture within and trust me they are soooo serious about the job