Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
Whoops, didn't make that clear.
We as Chinese. Sorry, been hanging around on Chinese forums for a while and I just typed that in without much thought.
That as starting mass production of an engine with similar performance compared to F-119.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
The fact is problems in Western technology just isn't reported. Chinese technology problems are reported because the West is trying to declare their superiority. That's the only reason it's reported or assumed. When we hear of cracked engines blades in the new 787 that was grounded, does the world it's game over for the 787? The 787 was suppose to fly people to the Beijing Olympics. It didn't come anywhere close. And let's not forget that the US actually stopped funding hypersonic development after bragging about it was going to molest the world with Prompt Global Strike and no one could do anything about it. Why? Maybe because US hypersonic tests weren't having much success aka failure. And the only reason US hypersonic development was infused with money again was because of Chinese hypersonic tests that have performed better that any US test. Lasers are overhyped. Rail guns are overhyped. There was an article in the past few months I read about after all the hype over rail guns. The fact is it's a extremely limited use weapon because the gun will literally tear itself apart after using it over a short amount of time and will have to be over hauled making it not practical in warfare.
Technically "HGV" doesn't have any engines. I assume you are referring to standard hypersonic (scramjet) engines. Since nobody has fielded a true working hypersonic engine, I don't think you can say China is "one generation" behind anybody, though I would agree that China is probably not yet at the leading edge of scramjet technology. The US X-43's maximum recorded flight time among all test vehicles was for a whopping total of 13 seconds. The X-51's max flight time was 210 seconds. Both of these are just test platforms and not fielded weapons. Britain's scramjet SABRE is still in concept stage. Russia's 3M22 Zircon actually looks like it's the closest to becoming a fielded scramjet weapon, which would make it the world's first.
b787
Captain
Too much propaganda, the current state technology needs turbofans, the most successful jet engine ever is French and American a joint venture, why? the answer is the joint ventures have the ability to combine the the market needs of several countries.
France has made with the USA 30,000s CFM56 jet engines for different jet powered aircraft.
Ukraine has an engine that China does not even has ever made in mass production.
China will not go back, it will eventually master the jet engine technology, but market needs are what really mean producibility and thus success.
The Germans and Japanese know that, the Chinese claim things for propaganda, the Germans and Japanese can make larger engines but the problem always is the market, there is no point to have an engine as the D-18T as Ukraine has if there is no market for it as the the An-124, or even the An-225 program show, Europe will not use it and the only potential user has political problems with you i Mean Russia.
The Airbus program shows that if you want success you need money and thus you need partners, Germany, France, and Japan are included in jet programs with the USA even because the Americans too comprehend you have to share the pie, the CFM-56 is not even american, it is French/American, the second most produced jet engine is the V2500, and also is a joint venture where Germany and Japan are included, Today the Chinese are involved with Russia in two programs where the PD-14 will be used as a basic core for such programs, the PD-14 will be derived into the PD-35 that will be used in the large airliner China and Russia are making and the PD-14 will be designed into the engine to power the helicopter program China and Russia are planning.
Can China go ahead for these types of engines, of course and like Ukraine can make engines like D-18T, but the problem is always profits, CFM-56 and V2500 are flying en jets made for so many nations that basically they are financed by the whole world, in fact China indirectly has financed these programs by buying aircraft that use these engines.
The Russians also know the problem of financing their jet engines, they can build engines for the SSJ-100 and MS-21, but in both aircraft use western subsystems because they know, you can not compete easily with a company that has more engines made and thus more success in the international arena by have real revenue and profits
Last edited:
That is why I tried to confirm that by "HGV" he is not referring to a type of engine that I was not aware of.
I was referring to jet and rocket engines because I know very little about how China is doing in ramjet area. It's probably a mistake to bring jet engines to the conversation because it has little to do with HGV. (Tho I wonder if it is possible to use turbojet to accelerate to speed that ramjet would work instead of using rocket engines.)
About rocket engines:
It's possible for HGV to rely solely on rocket engines and my guess is that's what WU-14 was using.
China's newest rocket engines are still somewhat inferior to world leaders(Which were still using cold-war era designs) in terms of thrust to weight ratio and fuel efficiency. So I'm not very confident about China's progress on rocket engine technologies.
Haven't heard anything about that for a long time.
Isn't the pre-cooler tested a few years ago?
I was referring to jet engines. Yeah, a mistake to talk about it and confuse everyone.
antiterror13
Brigadier
cool ... I am assuming WS-15 that have similar performance to F-119 ? ... thats fair call as I believe Chinese turbofan technology is roughly 20 years behind the US (note that I didin't say 20 years behind West ... )
Equation
Lieutenant General
Civilian use of HGV could be for mini satellite launching. If the US, Russia, and UK are a generation ahead of China's in regards to HGV engines why haven't we seen it on the media as much as China's successes? I wouldn't think it would take China a "decade or two" to catch up. That' sound typically of China naysayers refusing to see how much the Chinese program had progress and can only continue to succeed as more and more professional researchers join the ranks.
It would have been quite idiotic to hang an engine as large as D-18T or even one halve that size on a small aircraft like the An-148.
b787
Captain
My point was not that, my point was the Antonov company had plans to build a commercial version of the An-124 for airliner use, the An-124 can be turned into an airliner in the same way the B-747 was turned into an airliner, but it never materialized.
The D-18T is a very powerful engine, China has not such engine, the Progress D-18T has being used on a cargo aircraft, as an engine it puts Ukraine as the forth country with real large engines and the engines was put into production they built close to 200+ engines.
The claim that China is the 4th country to have such engines then is false and propaganda, they arranged the wording, by saying commercial engines, but the facts are Motorsich is the forth jet engine manufacturer to build high thrust engines.
However my point it was that you can have the engine and the aircraft, in the case of Ukraine the D-18T and the An-124, but if you have no market then you have no reason to build your engines, Ukraine will not build more An-124, Russia already is working in a 35 tonnes engine derived from the PD-14 and will built a large airliner to replace the Il-96, according to what i know Russia just anounced they Chinese that they will be building the engine for the new airliner China and Russia will build and the 35 tonnes new engine will be used to replace the D-18T build in Ukraine.
So basically D-18T will not be build any more unless Ukraine builds more An-124s.
Antonov knows that so they are concentrating on a new smaller airliner the An-148 and Motorsich is building and designing a new engine to power it, Russia will build also a new cargo aircraft once Il-476 life is used, but PD-14 will lease new life to Il-76 with a more powerful variant.
if you want to know more read this