Honestly, but in terms of Chinese aviation matters Flight International is similar reliable as Jane's.
Deino
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Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
Honestly, but in terms of Chinese aviation matters Flight International is similar reliable as Jane's.
Deino
If J-16 and J-15S flying prototype are fitted with WS-10A for the highly dangerous and importance initial first flight test. I don't see the reason why J-20 are not? Plus, WS-10A are comfirmed to have higher thrust than AL-31F. Its even better to use Taihang engine to give it a better performance.
WS-10A has more thrust than AL-31? confirmed by who?
How many times do you need to ask? This is the second times you have ask it and previous questionhas been answer. Use the search button and dont be lazy.
I'd take the word of a couple of big shrimps on Chinese bbs over any Western source any day of the week. You just have to know who they are that are good sources.
Getting a little defensive here aren't you? I have no mentioned anything about WS-10A.
You know, we spend a lot of time on this forum dismissing JDW and Russian sources. The one time they say something in favour of Chinese factories, you automatically put them as golden standards.
The situation is something like this. The Sichuan plant is the world's largest MRO facility outside of Russia. The Russians statement that China have achieved near autonomy is not true. It has achieved COMPLETE autonomy in the support of Russian made engine. They got help from the Russians along the way and the Ukrainians and Belarus, but that's why they don't need to take the engine back to Russia when they do the overhaul and such. The idea that some miraculous break through happened in 2004 is bogus too, since they've been improving it since they first got the MRO line back in the 90s. This was a big deal when they first purchased Su-27.
Having said that, my point all along is that this is some kind of miraculous achievement. It's not. They've had 15 to 20 years to work on this. They've developed their own engine already. And they've raised the life time from 900 to 1500 hours? They are using better replacement and parts sometime than what the Russians originally assembled AL-31F with. They better do it or else they are completely incompetent. It's truly shameful that AVIC engine is continuously boasting about progress like this and Shenyang Liming's incompetence from 2007 to 2010. There are plants in China like Xi'an AE who is doing a really good job, but there are also plants that don't do a good job like Liming. Avic officials boast and praise them equally. You shouldn't accept everything you read from these propaganda pieces as facts.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Can you read a simple English or not? Nowhere in this article is Liming boasting the achievement of extending life time to 1500 hr.
The source of this news is Russian think tank and not LIMING or AVIC !
I don't know why are you bad mouthing AVIC without Shenyang there is no modern Chinese aviation
I never said it is miraculous achievement. You are putting the word in my mouth.
You are moving the goal post I question your contention that China cannot built reliable engine and liming is useless. I cite the article by Ruben Johnson to prove that if they can extend the life time of Al 31 engine they surely have the experience and skill to built better engine
I never generalized all Russian source as garbage I just question Russian media reliability big difference!
And for your information you are not all that self knowing I remember quite well you predict the 054 will stop at 8 Wrong they still building it
Another thing if extending the life to 1500 hr is due to the assistance of Russian why the AL 31 engine is still suck!
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I am going to bad mouth Shenyang Liming. It just hasn't done a very good job of producing WS-10. Compared to Xi'an AE, which has done a much better job in producing WS-9.
I don't see how I'm moving the goal post. My position here all along was to say this idea of extending life to 1500 hours is nothing special. I want it to be known that we need to look past these propaganda pieces by AVIC1.
This is what I originally wrote:
"Go to Chinese forum and actually read what people who know about the progress of Chinese aero engine are saying about this. Most Russian and Western pieces are ignorant, but the Chinese ones embellish too much.
And when did we start taking analysis of posters like mik888 as official sources.
does this look like official or his self proclaimed online military expert (aka internet warrior) analysis."
Isn't my point pretty clear here? Don't accept all the boasting pieces from AVIC1. And internet warriors like mik888 is certainly not an official source. So, don't treat it like one. His opinion doesn't proof anything.
Im not necessarly denying that liming didnt do a very good job, but i dont think its comparable producing a license-built copy of an 60´s engine (WS-9), to producing a (more-or-less) modern, more powerfull, domestic engine, even if its not fully domestic.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
You still didn't get it do you AVIC doesn't claim or boast anything the report is from Russia. They surely know what they are talking about since they supplied the Spare part
to the the engine
I find it interesting some one who never work or touch a real Gas Turbine can freely criticize AVIC or Liming You think reading Chinese BBS will make you expert in Gas Turbine?
I don't need to read BBS to understand gas turbine I did simulate and analyze real gas turbine performance using simulation software of Gate Cycle and Thermoflow
I can appreciate the difficulty of designing a real gas turbine though I am not component designer
For Liming to achieve what they did sofar is tremendous effort. All hat to them
They really had to do a lot of work for WS-9. It had to go through design and production certification process. Remember, the issue is production and quality control. You can have a good design, but if the production process and management is bad, it's not going to help. And this also has to do with what I read about issues in these production plant. Remember Kunlun engine, Shenyang Liming even had trouble with mass producing that.
The original article that came out about 900 hours to 1500 hours is Chinese. Look up this thread. You can find it.
Shenyang Liming does not design gas turbine or turbo engines, it produces them. Is it so hard to understand?
No one here says that engine production is easy. But we can compare the progress of some company to other ones. It seems like you get offended whenever I criticize any part of China's military industrial complex. Guess what, not all of the institutes are performing to the levels they could be. If you compare the past performances of some of the Chinese engine producers, it's clear that some are better than other ones. People who have been much closer to Chinese military industry than I am have universally criticized Liming. The Chinese military bbs aren't perfect, but there are a very selected few people who really know what they are talking about.
Basically according to you, I can't ever say something China does isn't good enough or some Chinese factory is not doing a good job.