Chinese Economics Thread

A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
PiSigma said:
Didn't someone just say solar and wind are surge power generation? So how much solar is going to be available at night if there isn't much storage capacity? Need to spend money on that storage first. And wind doesn't necessarily blow during times people are charging their car. So have to depend on coal/nuclear to charge car, so that EV is still coal powered.
Click to expand...

Wind is intermittent, although somewhat predictable for at least a few hours in advance. It's straightforward for the grid to signal (eg. voltage/frequency) what the power availability will be like, so that charging can be optimised.

Solar by definition, only works during the day. But that is good because the daytime demand and peak demand occur then.

In terms of electricity generation profile, there is so much more potential with solar because of all the technological developments available with semi-conductors and because there are a lot more sites available for solar than wind.

So if most of the electricity is generated during the daytime, it just makes more sense to charge electric vehicles during the daytime as well.

All sorts of new battery storage technologies are also being developed. For example, vanadium flow batteries have just started commercial deployment for industrial scale grid usage and should displace lithium ion batteries in this area.

So we can still expect battery storage costs to continue dropping rapidly.

Grid-Scale Battery Storage Is Already Viable In Australia

That means that large-scale battery storage is already viable in large parts of Australia. In South Australia, it is offering internal rates of return of around 30 per cent (even without new market rules that will further encourage them), and in Queensland they are also profitable due to that state’s price volatility. NSW and Victoria will follow soon enough.

Read more
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Click to expand...
 
A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
t2contra said:
Long story short, China is not Japan. /
Click to expand...

Yes. And China is also not the USA.

In terms of electriciy production and automobiles, China is bigger than the USA plus Japan.

When combined with China's current situation, electric vehicles can help solve the pollution issue, power economic growth and also create world class chinese multinationals that could dominate the global industry.
 
vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
PiSigma said:
Didn't someone just say solar and wind are surge power generation? So how much solar is going to be available at night if there isn't much storage capacity? Need to spend money on that storage first. And wind doesn't necessarily blow during times people are charging their car. So have to depend on coal/nuclear to charge car, so that EV is still coal powered.
Click to expand...

One storage solution is to combine hydro generation with solar or wind power. The electricity generated by renewables are used to pump water onto higher elevation and let the water run the hydro turbine when electricity is needed
 
PiSigma

PiSigma

"the engineer"
vincent said:
One storage solution is to combine hydro generation with solar or wind power. The electricity generated by renewables are used to pump water onto higher elevation and let the water run the hydro turbine when electricity is needed
Click to expand...
Doable. Just added another layer of inefficiencies. Pumps are typically 75% efficient (if you have a good mechanical engineer), and then you got major frictional losses for the piping. I'm ignoring head losses for obvious reasons.
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Shale gas in China . The problem China is water short country and fracking need a lot of water plus all kind brew that could seep into ground water and nobody know the health effect of petroleum laced water

Another news China will finish the second pipeline to Russia from Mohe close to Russian border to Daqing the oil hub of northern China
via mr unknown
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Crude oil to flow in China-Russia partnership
in Oil & Companies News 13/09/2017

China is set to annually import 30 million tons of crude oil from Russia starting next year, through two transmission pipelines between the two countries, according to Hu Weijun, chief engineer of Jiagedaqi section of the project on Tuesday.

The project is an attempt to help ensure China’s energy diversification.

“Chinese workers will finish construction on the infrastructure for the major line of China’s second Sino-Russian crude oil transmission pipeline by the end of September,” Hu said.

The project, with a length of 941.8 kilometers and built from Mohe County to Daqing, Heilongjiang province, has the capacity to transmit 15 million tons of crude oil annually.

“Workers began construction in last August, 2016, and dealt with many difficulties in the past 14 months,” Hu said.

“From October, repeated tests on the main line of this project should be conducted before it is put into service in the beginning of 2018.

“The biggest problem was the bitter cold – in this area as low as -40 C.”
 
Quickie

Quickie

Colonel
vincent said:
One storage solution is to combine hydro generation with solar or wind power. The electricity generated by renewables are used to pump water onto higher elevation and let the water run the hydro turbine when electricity is needed
Click to expand...

Another way is to just reduce the water flow to the turbines when solar and wind power (admittedly more unpredictable) is at its peak.
 
A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
PiSigma said:
Doable. Just added another layer of inefficiencies. Pumps are typically 75% efficient (if you have a good mechanical engineer), and then you got major frictional losses for the piping. I'm ignoring head losses for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

The issue is that pumped hydro locations are limited. There are other options being worked on like compressed air storage, but again, suitable locations are an issue.

The good news is that there are so many electricity generation and electricity storage technologies being researched, so we can expect costs to continue dropping rapidly.

---

For example, supercapacitor buses today offer a lower total cost of ownership over their lifespan. So they are now being operated/trialed by cities all over the world.

High-density supercapacitors could offer an alternative to batteries thanks to newly discovered materials that could allow the technology to proliferate commercially.

Read more
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top