Chinese Economics Thread

[PiSigma]

Charging station will have plenty of electricity storage capacity, which should be able to handle the faster charging time required during the busier hours. The electricity deficit during the day time can easily be replenished during the off peak hours.

I'm not a electrical engineer, in fact that was my worst subject in 1st year.
What if there are no spare capacity during off hours due to so many charging cars? Either way, I see it as an energy balance, since that is what I do for a living. Any energy that is removed from the system provided by petroleum products will have to be made up by electricity. We consume about 100 million barrels of oil day, which on a purely energy conversion is about 169900 Gwh of energy, say if 50% of it is used for cars, then you still need to find 85000 Gwh of energy from somewhere.....so when you say plenty of storage, even if it is distributed over a day, that is a lot of batteries and extra electrical generation required. This doesn't include any losses in energy from oil or electricity.

I think we are getting too OT, this will be my last post on this issue. I won't be able to convince you tree huggers the awesomeness that is oil and everything made from it and all the modern technologies based on it. And you will never convince me to drive a EV with the current technology. I can't drive 100 miles in -20C weather to the mountains for snowboarding and drive back in it. ( I know someone who tried with a Tesla X... Never made it to the mountains.)

 

[vincent]

There are plenty of capacity in China

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In 2016, China’s wind curtailment rate – the amount of wind power that could have have been generated and used but wasn’t – reached 17%, more than double what it was in 2014.

 

[Quickie]

I'm not a electrical engineer, in fact that was my worst subject in 1st year.
What if there are no spare capacity during off hours due to so many charging cars? Either way, I see it as an energy balance, since that is what I do for a living. Any energy that is removed from the system provided by petroleum products will have to be made up by electricity. We consume about 100 million barrels of oil day, which on a purely energy conversion is about 169900 Gwh of energy, say if 50% of it is used for cars, then you still need to find 85000 Gwh of energy from somewhere.....so when you say plenty of storage, even if it is distributed over a day, that is a lot of batteries and extra electrical generation required. This doesn't include any losses in energy from oil or electricity.

By "We" I suppose you mean "the world"?

Anyways, fossil fuel engines only have about 20 to 30 percent energy efficiency, which is much less energy efficient than electric motors of more than 90%.

 

[PiSigma]

By "We" I suppose you mean "the world"?

Anyways, fossil fuel engines only have about 20 to 30 percent energy efficiency, which is much less energy efficient than electric motors of more than 90%.

Yes we means the globe.

 

[solarz]

I'm not a electrical engineer, in fact that was my worst subject in 1st year.
What if there are no spare capacity during off hours due to so many charging cars? Either way, I see it as an energy balance, since that is what I do for a living. Any energy that is removed from the system provided by petroleum products will have to be made up by electricity. We consume about 100 million barrels of oil day, which on a purely energy conversion is about 169900 Gwh of energy, say if 50% of it is used for cars, then you still need to find 85000 Gwh of energy from somewhere.....so when you say plenty of storage, even if it is distributed over a day, that is a lot of batteries and extra electrical generation required. This doesn't include any losses in energy from oil or electricity.

I think we are getting too OT, this will be my last post on this issue. I won't be able to convince you tree huggers the awesomeness that is oil and everything made from it and all the modern technologies based on it. And you will never convince me to drive a EV with the current technology. I can't drive 100 miles in -20C weather to the mountains for snowboarding and drive back in it. ( I know someone who tried with a Tesla X... Never made it to the mountains.)

What if gas stations run out of gas?

The simple fact is that electricity production will ramp up or down based on consumption. There aren't going to be millions of EVs appearing on the road overnight. The increase will be gradual, and the electricity production will ramp up accordingly.

I actually agree with you on the current EV technology. I live in Canada, so driving in -20C weather is like 3 months a year. However, I'm also pretty confident that this technology is going to be improving at an amazing pace. In perhaps as few as 5-10 years, we might see EVs becoming reliable and affordable enough for even my standards.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

Your logic doesn't work.

If 7.2 KW (the figure given by you) of charging power can cause blackout, then there will be a lot of blackout already, caused by the average households using electric showers, which can range from 5 KW to 10 KW.

You also forget that charging station will have plenty of storage capacity to store cheaper electricity during off-peak hours.

That is for only ONE car.
You need to multiply it by the number of EVs that is going to on the road in five years add that to the projected amount of electricity demand by house hold, business and industry and then compare it with the predicted electricity baseload the power plants can generate.

 

[Quickie]

That is for only ONE car.
You need to multiply it by the number of EVs that is going to on the road in five years add that to the projected amount of electricity demand by house hold, business and industry and then compare it with the predicted electricity baseload the power plants can generate.

What makes you think it can't be done.

China increase it's electricity production 2.5 times between the year 2004 to 2014. The recent increase in production is much slower compared to those earlier years because of slower economic growth and over capacity. There's no reason why electricity production rate can't be increased to the previous rate when there's an economic reason to do so.

 

[vincent]

SB, ever heard of

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?

 

[antiterror13]

I'm not a electrical engineer, in fact that was my worst subject in 1st year.
What if there are no spare capacity during off hours due to so many charging cars? Either way, I see it as an energy balance, since that is what I do for a living. Any energy that is removed from the system provided by petroleum products will have to be made up by electricity. We consume about 100 million barrels of oil day, which on a purely energy conversion is about 169900 Gwh of energy, say if 50% of it is used for cars, then you still need to find 85000 Gwh of energy from somewhere.....so when you say plenty of storage, even if it is distributed over a day, that is a lot of batteries and extra electrical generation required. This doesn't include any losses in energy from oil or electricity.

I think we are getting too OT, this will be my last post on this issue. I won't be able to convince you tree huggers the awesomeness that is oil and everything made from it and all the modern technologies based on it. And you will never convince me to drive a EV with the current technology. I can't drive 100 miles in -20C weather to the mountains for snowboarding and drive back in it. ( I know someone who tried with a Tesla X... Never made it to the mountains.)

In the future (already happening in NZ .. see

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), the price of electricity is based on spot market and customers will use electricity accordingly .. it means they will stop charging when the price is too high (i.e peak hours) ... customers will choose the time when the price is low enough or can set the device to monitor the electricity price and charging the car when the price is low enough .. thats how it works ... and there will be no black out .. unless somebody in charge in grid power system and the only thing he/she knows are google and Wiki ... ask @SamuraiBlue

 

[AndrewS]

I'm not a electrical engineer, in fact that was my worst subject in 1st year.
What if there are no spare capacity during off hours due to so many charging cars? Either way, I see it as an energy balance, since that is what I do for a living. Any energy that is removed from the system provided by petroleum products will have to be made up by electricity. We consume about 100 million barrels of oil day, which on a purely energy conversion is about 169900 Gwh of energy, say if 50% of it is used for cars, then you still need to find 85000 Gwh of energy from somewhere.....so when you say plenty of storage, even if it is distributed over a day, that is a lot of batteries and extra electrical generation required. This doesn't include any losses in energy from oil or electricity.

I think we are getting too OT, this will be my last post on this issue. I won't be able to convince you tree huggers the awesomeness that is oil and everything made from it and all the modern technologies based on it. And you will never convince me to drive a EV with the current technology. I can't drive 100 miles in -20C weather to the mountains for snowboarding and drive back in it. ( I know someone who tried with a Tesla X... Never made it to the mountains.)

The way the electricity industry currently works is that there are baseload power plants (eg. coal/nuclear) which run all the time, then peak daytime power plants (eg. gas), and then spike plants (eg. hydro)

As mentioned before, the introduction of electric vehicles en-masse will drive more charging during night-time hours. That will shift the demand profile towards cheaper baseload plants that run 24/7.

At the time same, wind and solar is become cost-competitive against fossil-fuel power plants, and the rate of technological improvement is still high as the technology is still immature.

That should resolve the electricity supply side.

On the vehicles, most of the world is NOT like the USA with its car culture and climate. The majority of the world is is much more densely populated and in warmer climates. That means car trips are much shorter and nobody needs to drive 100miles in -20 weather.

Technological improvements are also coming fast because electric vehicles are similar to the semiconductor/electronics industries.