Chinese Economics Thread

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Guys, some of these responses are getting out of hand and political and ideological in nature.

Blackstone, your article is alright, but please remove the "PS" you tagged onto it as it is (and probably the poem as well) generating undesired responses, reports on the post itself, and causing the thread problems.

Not everyone understands or appreciates American cynicism or facetious takes like this.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION
 

broadsword

Brigadier
BYD wins biggest order for electric bus in U.S.

2015-04-29

China's leading battery maker and electric vehicle producer BYD Motors Inc. has won an order for 60 pure electric transit buses from a U.S. mass-transit operator, which is the biggest order for a pure electric bus in the United States, the company said on Monday.

"Positive energy will always win! Finally we won Long Beach Trans award again -- the only difference is that now is 60 instead of 20! Cheers!" Stella Li, president of BYD Motors and senior vice president of BYD company Limited, posted on Moments feature of Tencent's WeChat.

The Long Beach Transit Board of Directors on Monday awarded an 11.7 million U.S. dollars contract to Los Angeles-based BYD Motors Inc. to manufacture 10 battery-powered electric buses and charging systems.

The transit authority, which serves portions of the Los Angeles metropolitan area, will order 10 battery-powered buses with options for its partner agencies to buy as many as 50 more.

"The long Beach Transit Board made a historic decision today that will not only benefit our customers, but will also be a win for the community," Long Beach Transit CEO Kenneth McDonad said in a statement.

The buses will be zero-emission, McDonald said, adding that they will be the "the cleanest bus we have offered to date" and on the "leading edge of technology in the industry."

According to BYD Motors, over the next 5 years, the implementation of 60 BYD electric buses could save Southern California from 124,757,730 lbs. of Carbon Emissions. To manage these equivalent emissions, it would take the planting of 525,691.48 trees, or foresting an area the size of 365 football fields.

Additionally, 60 electric buses operating 150 miles each day, 365 days a year could save operators and Southern California municipalities more than 15 million dollars in Diesel Fuel over the next five years.

Over the next 10 years, Long Beach Transit expects to be at least 90 percent alternatively fueled, Kevin Lee, a spokesman for Long Beach Transit told media.
 

Ultra

Junior Member
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on Thursday, April 30th, 2015


"The US has banned Intel from selling China chips it requires to update its Tianhe-2 supercomputer – the world’s largest – over concerns that it will be used for “nuclear explosive activities.”

The Tianhe-2 can perform a quadrillion mathematical calculations per second and though most of the technology is domestically developed, it uses tens of thousands of Intel’s Xeon and Xeon Phi processors.

Intel has been selling the chips to China for years but in August the US Department of Commerce told Intel they would need to apply for and be granted an export license to continue shipping chips.

“Intel complied with the notification and applied for the licence, which was denied. We are in compliance with the US law,” the chip maker said in a statement to the IDG new service.

In February the US placed 4 institutions with supercomputers on a list blocking them from receiving certain US exports. Those included China’s National University of Defense Technology, as well as the National Supercomputing Center of Guangzhou, home of the Tianhe-2 and the Tianhe-1a.

The notice from the Commerce Department announcing the denial of the export permit said the institutions in question were “acting contrary to the national security or foreign policy interests of the United States.”

The US export regulations cited apply to technologies that could be used for the “design, development, or fabrication of nuclear weapons.” It’s not clear if the US government has definite proof that these computers are being used for nuclear weapons research but the regulations require that officials have “more than positive knowledge” that the processors would be used – either directly or indirectly – in the development of nuclear weapons programs.

The ban could be yet another push for China to develop its own tech industry. Both US and Chinese regulations that stem from suspicions of spying have led China to rely more on its domestic industry. Strict Chinese banking regulations with requirements for information sharing that made US tech companies balk already pushed more of the financial tech market back into Chinese hands.

US has also had concerns about possible connections between Chinese technology firms and government spying. The US would not allow Huawei Technologies, the largest networking and telecommunications firm in the world, to operate in the US due to concerns over Chinese government spying. And in fact, the leaked NSA documents revealed that the US made efforts to create backdoors into Huawei’s systems itself.

Meanwhile, Intel can console itself with its recently awarded contract to supply chips for the US challenge to the Tianhe-2, being developed by the US Department of Energy at the Argonne National Laboratory. The Tianhe-2 boasts a computational capacity of 33.85 petaflops, but Argonne’s Aurora supercomputer is slated to have a 180 petaflop capacity."





So the whole thing is really just about bragging rights? The US wants to win back the bragging rights and fear the Chinese will be able to outspend them again by buying more Intel chips for their Tianhe-2, so they prevent the Chinese from buying the intel chips all together so they can win this june's Top 500. LOL.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
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on Thursday, April 30th, 2015
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So the whole thing is really just about bragging rights? The US wants to win back the bragging rights and fear the Chinese will be able to outspend them again by buying more Intel chips for their Tianhe-2, so they prevent the Chinese from buying the intel chips all together so they can win this june's Top 500. LOL.
No, it has little to do with bragging rights, because there's too much money involved. It's US strategic policy change from hedging to containment. Since China is too integrated into the world economy, US lacks the brute force to impose Soviet-style containment, so it chose the next best thing of military containment to continue its supremacy. It will be fascinating to see how events unfold in the next decade. We're living in interesting times.
 

Ultra

Junior Member
No, it has little to do with bragging rights, because there's too much money involved. It's US strategic policy change from hedging to containment. Since China is too integrated into the world economy, US lacks the brute force to impose Soviet-style containment, so it chose the next best thing of military containment to continue its supremacy. It will be fascinating to see how events unfold in the next decade. We're living in interesting times.

I am sorry I don't see your point. US is using selective "embargo" on Chinese institutions, namely the SUPERCOMPUTER CENTERS - they are not banning Intel chips from being sold to Chinese public or companies, just these supercomputer centers. So it is quite obvious they simply do not want competition from them - they know if Chinese government really wants to, they can buy these chips covertly even if they ban intel chips on all of China. But they didn't - they only ban these supercomputer centers. Not only that - the planned Aurora supercomputer at Argonne National Laboratory will have a 180 petaflop capacity - something that's several order of magnitutde faster than the current Tianhe-2 (33 petaflops in current network topology configuration - in optimum network configuration it will be 50) - as if US just wants to make sure they win this round.

The american establishment knows Chinese are only building thse supercomputers for bragging rights - the chinese are far behind in term of utilization of these hardwares due to their infant software industry. Researchers have criticized Tianhe-2 for being difficult to use. "It is at the world's frontier in terms of calculation capacity, but the function of the supercomputer is still way behind the ones in the US and Japan," says Chi Xuebin, deputy director of the Computer Network and Information Centre. "Some users would need years or even a decade to write the necessary code", he added.

Basically the US knows these hardwares still pose no threat to the american interest as its nothing more than bragging rights for China (national pride). So the purpose of this policy of banning supercomputer centers in China access to Intel chips is then purely political - so they can snub China's nose of being No.1 in the supercomputer world.
 

Franklin

Captain
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on Thursday, April 30th, 2015


"The US has banned Intel from selling China chips it requires to update its Tianhe-2 supercomputer – the world’s largest – over concerns that it will be used for “nuclear explosive activities.”

The Tianhe-2 can perform a quadrillion mathematical calculations per second and though most of the technology is domestically developed, it uses tens of thousands of Intel’s Xeon and Xeon Phi processors.

Intel has been selling the chips to China for years but in August the US Department of Commerce told Intel they would need to apply for and be granted an export license to continue shipping chips.

“Intel complied with the notification and applied for the licence, which was denied. We are in compliance with the US law,” the chip maker said in a statement to the IDG new service.

In February the US placed 4 institutions with supercomputers on a list blocking them from receiving certain US exports. Those included China’s National University of Defense Technology, as well as the National Supercomputing Center of Guangzhou, home of the Tianhe-2 and the Tianhe-1a.

The notice from the Commerce Department announcing the denial of the export permit said the institutions in question were “acting contrary to the national security or foreign policy interests of the United States.”

The US export regulations cited apply to technologies that could be used for the “design, development, or fabrication of nuclear weapons.” It’s not clear if the US government has definite proof that these computers are being used for nuclear weapons research but the regulations require that officials have “more than positive knowledge” that the processors would be used – either directly or indirectly – in the development of nuclear weapons programs.

The ban could be yet another push for China to develop its own tech industry. Both US and Chinese regulations that stem from suspicions of spying have led China to rely more on its domestic industry. Strict Chinese banking regulations with requirements for information sharing that made US tech companies balk already pushed more of the financial tech market back into Chinese hands.

US has also had concerns about possible connections between Chinese technology firms and government spying. The US would not allow Huawei Technologies, the largest networking and telecommunications firm in the world, to operate in the US due to concerns over Chinese government spying. And in fact, the leaked NSA documents revealed that the US made efforts to create backdoors into Huawei’s systems itself.

Meanwhile, Intel can console itself with its recently awarded contract to supply chips for the US challenge to the Tianhe-2, being developed by the US Department of Energy at the Argonne National Laboratory. The Tianhe-2 boasts a computational capacity of 33.85 petaflops, but Argonne’s Aurora supercomputer is slated to have a 180 petaflop capacity."





So the whole thing is really just about bragging rights? The US wants to win back the bragging rights and fear the Chinese will be able to outspend them again by buying more Intel chips for their Tianhe-2, so they prevent the Chinese from buying the intel chips all together so they can win this june's Top 500. LOL.
Its a bit late in the day to be worried about China using its supercomputers to model nuclear explosions. China has about 60 supercomputers in the top 500 that all can be used for that purpose. In the short run this will mean that China won't have any new record breaking supercomputers coming out any time soon. But in the long run this will help speed up China's domestic chips development.

Not to mention that this will give corporate America more headaches in China. This will give further justification to China's policy of using only domestic technologies for its government and industries. This goes on top of the Snowden revelations.

No doubt that Chinese chip makers will be cheering this news.
 
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Ultra

Junior Member
Its a bit late in the day to be worried about China using its supercomputers to model nuclear explosions. China has about 60 supercomputers in the top 500 that all can be used for that purpose. In the short run this will mean that China won't have any new record breaking supercomputers coming out. But in the long run it means that China will speed up its domestic chips industry.

Not to mention that this will give corporate America more headaches in China this and the Snowden revelations will further justify China's policy to use domestic technology only for its government and industries.

No doubt that Chinese chip makers will be cheering this news.


Exactly. Back in 2000 they were already carping about Playstation being too powerful for export and could potentially be used for nuclear simulation (and supposedly Saddam bought hundreds and so did Kim). That was when the top supercomputer were running at 7 teraflops! How time has changed...now a high-end graphics card can pump out 7 teraflops alone.


Now, China's Tianhe-2 is about 5000 TIMES faster than the supercomputer back then which were used to perform nuclear simulation. I think I remember something I read about how DOE wanted a 100 teraflops supercomputer to perform nuclear simulation REALTIME. So Tianhe-2 is already 340 times over what's required. To ban China now is already pointless. It only points to US wanted to snub China of the supercomputer crown.
 
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