China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread
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maozedong
Banned Idiot
Re: China's DF-41
PLA news paper first time report the story about strategic missiles loading on the train recently.
in above pic, I am not sure the missile on the train is DF-31 or DF-41.
I read some magazine mention that DF-41 is too heavy can not load on the vehicle,some post at this thread is deffint oppinion, we see the pic and articles showed that DF-41 with vehicle.
intresting thing is US always predict China only has 21 strategic nuclear missiles - US dosn't think DF-41 is in operational of China.
21 strategic nuclear missiles are DF-5,already arranged in missile wells.
PLA news paper first time report the story about strategic missiles loading on the train recently.
in above pic, I am not sure the missile on the train is DF-31 or DF-41.
I read some magazine mention that DF-41 is too heavy can not load on the vehicle,some post at this thread is deffint oppinion, we see the pic and articles showed that DF-41 with vehicle.
intresting thing is US always predict China only has 21 strategic nuclear missiles - US dosn't think DF-41 is in operational of China.
21 strategic nuclear missiles are DF-5,already arranged in missile wells.
BLUEJACKET
Banned Idiot
Violet Oboe
Junior Member
Re: China's DF-41
Well the whole PLA strategic missile capabilities seems to be like a mystery within a maze and the chinese leadership is probably very intent to confuse foreign analysts with all measures applicable.
Although FAS is usually quite informative (but not very often updated!) the serene arrogance displayed in their brief DF-41 article could be misplaced.
Without doubt China had very serious problems in development of the DF31/41 family since the early 90´s and as Jeffrey Lewis, a leading expert on Second Artillery, remarked correctly it ´took damned long´to develop, produce and deploy the first DF-31A missiles. Nevertheless recent developments seem to indicate (e.g. Hu Jin Tao held a speech in front of Second Artillery officers last autumn and mentioned deployment of a new strategic missile) that DF-31A has achieved IOC finally. Perhaps the missile is deployed on road mobile launcher and also on railway launchers and in parallel the PLA has also introduced very advanced and innovative measures of obfuscation.
China has currently to make every effort to acquire the technological level of Russia in missile engineering but we should not forget about the fact that the USSR developed and deployed the mighty RT-23 ´Molodets`system (NATO Code SS-24) (solid, throwweight 4 ts, 23.3 m long, 104.5 ts mass, 10 MIRV, 10000 km range) based in silos and in special railway cars back in the 1980´s! May be a lot of people would be surprised that chinese engineers can achieve today what their russian counterparts could evidently do twenty years ago but my personal view is that I would not be surprised at all! :china:
I suppose that in the coming few years a lot of people will be very surprised like they were after the latest ASAT test and my advice to them is : Be prepared for some additional to come!
Well the whole PLA strategic missile capabilities seems to be like a mystery within a maze and the chinese leadership is probably very intent to confuse foreign analysts with all measures applicable.
Although FAS is usually quite informative (but not very often updated!) the serene arrogance displayed in their brief DF-41 article could be misplaced.
Without doubt China had very serious problems in development of the DF31/41 family since the early 90´s and as Jeffrey Lewis, a leading expert on Second Artillery, remarked correctly it ´took damned long´to develop, produce and deploy the first DF-31A missiles. Nevertheless recent developments seem to indicate (e.g. Hu Jin Tao held a speech in front of Second Artillery officers last autumn and mentioned deployment of a new strategic missile) that DF-31A has achieved IOC finally. Perhaps the missile is deployed on road mobile launcher and also on railway launchers and in parallel the PLA has also introduced very advanced and innovative measures of obfuscation.
China has currently to make every effort to acquire the technological level of Russia in missile engineering but we should not forget about the fact that the USSR developed and deployed the mighty RT-23 ´Molodets`system (NATO Code SS-24) (solid, throwweight 4 ts, 23.3 m long, 104.5 ts mass, 10 MIRV, 10000 km range) based in silos and in special railway cars back in the 1980´s! May be a lot of people would be surprised that chinese engineers can achieve today what their russian counterparts could evidently do twenty years ago but my personal view is that I would not be surprised at all! :china:
I suppose that in the coming few years a lot of people will be very surprised like they were after the latest ASAT test and my advice to them is : Be prepared for some additional to come!
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BLUEJACKET
Banned Idiot
Re: China's DF-41
Yes, I already posted some interesting links on related topics here.
They certainly could get help from Russian engineers who designed/operated those mobile ICBMs. PLA's secrecy is understandable: it would be foolish to reveal any weaknesses, and they wait till success is achieved before declassifying anything new- in order not to lose face. IMO even if their ICBMs can't cover all of CONUS, still 3 western states- California, Washington and Hawaii are very important in themselves!
I wonder if DF-31 has enough range to reach the US Atlantic seaboard if launched from W.China? It probably could be increased with a smaller warhead.
I posted some interesting links on related topics here.
Yes, I already posted some interesting links on related topics here.
They certainly could get help from Russian engineers who designed/operated those mobile ICBMs. PLA's secrecy is understandable: it would be foolish to reveal any weaknesses, and they wait till success is achieved before declassifying anything new- in order not to lose face. IMO even if their ICBMs can't cover all of CONUS, still 3 western states- California, Washington and Hawaii are very important in themselves!
I wonder if DF-31 has enough range to reach the US Atlantic seaboard if launched from W.China? It probably could be increased with a smaller warhead.
I posted some interesting links on related topics here.
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maozedong
Banned Idiot
Re: China's DF-41
I read some arcitles mention that in the interview between the reporter and a misslile expert.the expert said DF- 41 is not operationl yet,the reason is China predict the nuclear war would not happen now.but he said DF-41 technology simillar to DF-31, the difference between both is DF-41 longer and larger then DF-31.
DF-31 can't not reach US eastern area.China seams like to arrange the new SSBN - 094 to do this job.094 SSBN launch JL-2 misslile may reach US eastern area.
( sorry, western area should be eastern area of US )
I read some arcitles mention that in the interview between the reporter and a misslile expert.the expert said DF- 41 is not operationl yet,the reason is China predict the nuclear war would not happen now.but he said DF-41 technology simillar to DF-31, the difference between both is DF-41 longer and larger then DF-31.
DF-31 can't not reach US eastern area.China seams like to arrange the new SSBN - 094 to do this job.094 SSBN launch JL-2 misslile may reach US eastern area.
( sorry, western area should be eastern area of US )
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Asymptote
Banned Idiot
Re: China's DF-41
The RT-23/SS-24 is not the mightest ICBM Russian ever had. The R-36M/SS-18 SATAN (How fitting for a name!) is the mightest.
"The R-36M is similar to the R-36 in design, but has the capacity to mount a single warhead of up to 25 Mt of TNT in yield, or a MIRV payload of up to 10 warheads, each with a 550-750 kt yield, throw weight of the missile is 8800 kg. This makes the Soviet R-36 the world's heaviest ICBM; for comparison, the heaviest U.S. MIRV is able to carry 10 warheads only 330 kt each, with a throw weight of 4000 kg."
"Missiles of the R-36M/SS-18 family have never been deployed with more than ten warheads. But given their large throw-weight (8.8 tonnes as specified in START, they have the capacity to carry considerably more than that. Among the projects that the Soviet Union considered in the mid-1970s was that of a 15A17 missile—a follow-on to the R-36MUTTH (15A18). The missile would have had an even greater throw-weight—9.5 tonnes—and would be able to carry a very large number of warheads. Five different versions of the missile were considered. Three of these versions would carry regular warheads – 38x 250 kt yield, 24x 500 kt yield, or 15-17x 1 Mt yield. Two modifications were supposed to carry guided warheads (“upravlyaemaya golovnaya chast”) – 28x 250 kt or 19x 500 kt."
In my opinion, China should research Air Launched Ballistic Missile, because it will force the scientists and engineers for a greater level of miniturisation. Strategically, I also think the ground launch ballistic missiles whether mobile, or silo-based or SLBM are all too slow to evade any first strike plan. They will probably not even able to survive and do the retaliatory second strike. Where as Air Launch Ballistic Missile that are always on standby or in air, has first strike capability and have the mobility to move away from danger far more quickly than any ground base version. It gives maximum flexibility, at the same time, it makes it harder for opponent to track, and lastly, having first strike capability makes it a far stronger deterent than secondary strike capability. Remember, attack is always the best defense. Just learn from what american has shown to the rest of the world - "forward force projection", "first strike policy" and "first strike capability".
China has currently to make every effort to acquire the technological level of Russia in missile engineering but we should not forget about the fact that the USSR developed and deployed the mighty RT-23 ´Molodets`system (NATO Code SS-24) (solid, throwweight 4 ts, 23.3 m long, 104.5 ts mass, 10 MIRV, 10000 km range) based in silos and in special railway cars back in the 1980´s! May be a lot of people would be surprised that chinese engineers can achieve today what their russian counterparts could evidently do twenty years ago but my personal view is that I would not be surprised at all! :china:
I suppose that in the coming few years a lot of people will be very surprised like they were after the latest ASAT test and my advice to them is : Be prepared for some additional to come!
The RT-23/SS-24 is not the mightest ICBM Russian ever had. The R-36M/SS-18 SATAN (How fitting for a name!) is the mightest.
"The R-36M is similar to the R-36 in design, but has the capacity to mount a single warhead of up to 25 Mt of TNT in yield, or a MIRV payload of up to 10 warheads, each with a 550-750 kt yield, throw weight of the missile is 8800 kg. This makes the Soviet R-36 the world's heaviest ICBM; for comparison, the heaviest U.S. MIRV is able to carry 10 warheads only 330 kt each, with a throw weight of 4000 kg."
"Missiles of the R-36M/SS-18 family have never been deployed with more than ten warheads. But given their large throw-weight (8.8 tonnes as specified in START, they have the capacity to carry considerably more than that. Among the projects that the Soviet Union considered in the mid-1970s was that of a 15A17 missile—a follow-on to the R-36MUTTH (15A18). The missile would have had an even greater throw-weight—9.5 tonnes—and would be able to carry a very large number of warheads. Five different versions of the missile were considered. Three of these versions would carry regular warheads – 38x 250 kt yield, 24x 500 kt yield, or 15-17x 1 Mt yield. Two modifications were supposed to carry guided warheads (“upravlyaemaya golovnaya chast”) – 28x 250 kt or 19x 500 kt."
In my opinion, China should research Air Launched Ballistic Missile, because it will force the scientists and engineers for a greater level of miniturisation. Strategically, I also think the ground launch ballistic missiles whether mobile, or silo-based or SLBM are all too slow to evade any first strike plan. They will probably not even able to survive and do the retaliatory second strike. Where as Air Launch Ballistic Missile that are always on standby or in air, has first strike capability and have the mobility to move away from danger far more quickly than any ground base version. It gives maximum flexibility, at the same time, it makes it harder for opponent to track, and lastly, having first strike capability makes it a far stronger deterent than secondary strike capability. Remember, attack is always the best defense. Just learn from what american has shown to the rest of the world - "forward force projection", "first strike policy" and "first strike capability".
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BLUEJACKET
Banned Idiot
Re: China's DF-41
I now have bad news for you. The older with 12-15K km range can reach Boston, NY, Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington, DC even if launched from Eastern China over the N. Pole, as fig. 92 illustrates-
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