Chinese Aviation Industry

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Excellent news after so much delay, twist and turn, They finally crank up the production. Hope they don't take short cut and make sure the quality is top notch. Is this new production facility or still the old one ?
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Via Greyboy from pakdef
CCTV: C919 passengers plane undergoing "Mass production stage"(央视国庆放卫星,C919量产
C919 "101" has successfully conducted 4 test flight, "102" at painting stage, test flight at year end expected, "103" undergoing major fitting
C919的101架机在转场阎良前将进行4次试飞,在第4次试飞时飞行高度将上升至7925米,并收放起落架。102架机正在全身喷漆,预计年底首飞,103架机正在总装。

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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
didn't know Boeing Zhoushan Completion Facility Sets China Plan In Motion
Sep 26, 2017
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Both 737max and A320 facilities in China is similar to Chinese introduction of CDMA and CDMA2000 in the early 1990s, a partial bargaining or balancing act related to C919's certification by FAA and EASA. One would easily see through it if one is familiar with the Chinese mobile standard struggle and market access stuff.
 

P5678

New Member
Registered Member
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business jets are a different type of aircraft, the main manufacturers are located in North America, Europe and Brazil, and the main markets are in the Americas, only Europe can boast a relatively large demand outside the Americas
Well, watching China for many years, just don't underestimate the demand from China for pretty much everything. Their demand is backed by consistent strong economic growth and people's living standard improvement, that is the scary part.
 

weig2000

Captain
Commercial aviation and semiconductor industries are the two priorities for China. The US is going all out to prevent the Chinese from gaining technology know-how in the areas...

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Oct 9, 2017 Danny Lam | Aviation Week & Space Technology

The trade dispute sparked by
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’s charges that
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is dumping C Series aircraft at unfair prices is marked by loud rhetoric on both sides of the U.S.-Canada border. Ottawa’s Liberal government has threatened Boeing’s defense business in Canada and enlisted UK Prime Minister Theresa May to lobby U.S. President Donald Trump. But Canada’s attempts to derail the petitions filed by Boeing with the U.S. Commerce Department and International Trade Commission have had no effect so far. The reason: The true target is not really Canada, but China and its aircraft industry.

U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer charges that Beijing’s efforts to subsidize and create national champions and force technology transfers distorts markets throughout the world and is an “unprecedented” threat to the global trading system. Take aviation. By 2036, China is projected to be the No. 1 or No. 2 market in commercial aviation, a sector long dominated by
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and Boeing. Its national champion is Comac, which manufactures the
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regional jet and
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narrow-body and is developing—with Russia—the CR929 widebody. Beijing’s “Made in China 2025” plan sets aggressive targets for its aircraft industry, tasking Comac with taking more than 10% of the domestic market for mainline commercial aircraft.

That goal is backed by mercantilist policies and substantial government subsidies. Beijing has tried to break into markets before. China has poured tens of billions of dollars into cracking the semiconductor oligopoly controlled by U.S., Japanese, South Korean and Taiwanese companies. But so far it has not been successful in securing state-of-the-art integrated-circuit manufacturing technology because the industry has worked collaboratively to frustrate Chinese mercantilist ambitions. This has prevented the semiconductor market from suffering the fate of solar photovoltaics, or steel, where the market has been gutted by excess capacity from hundreds of new Chinese businesses.

Bombardier’s China strategy amounts to aiding and abetting Chinese mercantilism in commercial aviation, with predictable consequences for the global aerospace industry. The company entered into an agreement with Comac in 2012 to explore synergies between the C Series and C919, with the goal of challenging the Airbus-Boeing duopoly. Nothing concrete came out of that, and Bombardier nearly went bankrupt in 2015 before receiving investments from Canadian provincial and federal entities of at least $3 billion.

In May 2017, the Financial Times reported that Comac and Bombardier held talks about Chinese entities buying a stake in Bombardier Commercial Aircraft or the C Series, quoting an unnamed source as saying, “everything is on the table.” That included Chinese access to Bombardier’s technologies and its marketing, distribution and support infrastructure. This potential collaboration with China is, in my opinion, the principal but unspoken reason behind Boeing’s trade complaint.

As a Canadian company, Bombardier is entitled to preferences under the North American Free Trade Act (NAFTA) that sharply restrict U.S. trade actions so long as the product qualifies as NAFTA-origin. Indeed, Canada’s entitlement to arbitration under NAFTA’s Section 19 may be its last resort in the C Series dispute short of taking its case to the World Trade Organization. Not surprisingly, the U.S. wants to eliminate Chapter 19 in the renegotiation of NAFTA now underway.

So long as components add up to 50% of transaction value or 60% of net cost, a product qualifies for NAFTA preference. What if Chinese aerospace companies gained access to those same NAFTA preferences?

In its defense against Boeing’s claims, Bombardier says more than 50% of Canadian-assembled C Series aircraft come from the U.S., including its engines and avionics. The wing comes from Bombardier’s plant in Northern Ireland, but much of the fuselage already comes from SACC in China. It is conceivable that Bombardier could incorporate NAFTA-qualified engines, avionics and subsystems, but complete the final assembly in China—and have an aircraft that still qualifies as NAFTA-origin under the current rules.

Similarly, Chinese-built aircraft branded “Bombardier” could be sold from Canada while bypassing all tariffs against a China-based manufacturer. And Bombardier technology could enable Comac to build a successor to the C919 that would be truly competitive with Airbus and Boeing offerings in China. In other words, with Chinese investment, Comac-Bombardier could rapidly stand up as a capable competitor to the Airbus-Boeing duopoly in the North American and Chinese markets.

Boeing’s complaints about C Series subsidies are getting the media attention, but Bombardier’s willingness to transfer technologies and knowhow to China is at the heart of this trade dispute.

Danny Lam is a research associate at the University of Waterloo in Ontario. His research includes work on China, NAFTA and defense issues. The views expressed are not necessarily those of Aviation Week.
 

b787

Captain
Well, watching China for many years, just don't underestimate the demand from China for pretty much everything. Their demand is backed by consistent strong economic growth and people's living standard improvement, that is the scary part.
Every where in the world there is growth, but when you have an economy of USD $55000 per capital GDP like in the USA even growing at 2% means a yearly growth USD $1100 a year, basically the US at 2% grows per capita as China does in per capita every year however the US per capita is more than 3 times the Chinese per capita GDP.

To operate a private jet is quiet expensive, much more expensive than airliner regular cheaper tickets.

China today at per capita level is much more poor than the USA, while i can say flying an A-320 is cheaper i can see the Chinese have a Market but for private jets, i do not think so, operate a Phenom or Learjet is much more expensive, so i do not see such market yet



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So i do not think at this moment China has the demand the USA has.

Mass flying well is possible China might compete even wrestle for the largest airliner martket, but operating private jets is quiet expensive
 
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Franklin

Captain
Every where in the world there is growth, but when you have an economy of USD $55000 per capital GDP like in the USA even growing at 2% means a yearly growth USD $1100 a year, basically the US at 2% grows per capita as China does in per capita every year however the US per capita is more than 3 times the Chinese per capita GDP.

To operate a private jet is quiet expensive, much more expensive than airliner regular cheaper tickets.

China today at per capita level is much more poor than the USA, while i can say flying an A-320 is cheaper i can see the Chinese have a Market but for private jets, i do not think so, operate a Phenom or Learjet is much more expensive, so i do not see such market yet



So i do not think at this moment China has the demand the USA has.

Mass flying well is possible China might compete even wrestle for the largest airliner martket, but operating private jets is quiet expensive
The per capita income doesn't mean much in this case. Not everyone makes the same amount of money in a country. And China has a fast growing billionaire and millionaire class. I'm not saying its a good or a bad thing but its the fact. So there is a growing demand for business jets in China.

But beyond that there is also a military aspect of building business jets. A business jet in the class of the Gulfstream G550 can do certain things better than a Y-8 in a special mission role. Its much faster for a start.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Every where in the world there is growth, but when you have an economy of USD $55000 per capital GDP like in the USA even growing at 2% means a yearly growth USD $1100 a year, basically the US at 2% grows per capita as China does in per capita every year however the US per capita is more than 3 times the Chinese per capita GDP.

To operate a private jet is quiet expensive, much more expensive than airliner regular cheaper tickets.

China today at per capita level is much more poor than the USA, while i can say flying an A-320 is cheaper i can see the Chinese have a Market but for private jets, i do not think so, operate a Phenom or Learjet is much more expensive, so i do not see such market yet



So i do not think at this moment China has the demand the USA has.

Mass flying well is possible China might compete even wrestle for the largest airliner martket, but operating private jets is quiet expensive

That is hogwash China has more million er save the US. Last count China has 2-1/2 million millioner if just 1% decide to won the private jet there is demand for 20,000 plane. Private jet was not even allowed in Chinese airspace until recently because Chinese air space is heavily regulated by the military .Let alone private jet even commercial airline has trouble expanding the existing air route due to limited airspace reserve for civilian aircraft That is the cause of so much delay in Chinese airliner.
So the lack of private jet manufacturer has nothing to do with the demand. Plus China has well developed high speed railway which is convenient for business

Anyway on different subject Her the story of Chief designer for Comac C919 via jsch from pakdef

The sky is the limit for China's home-grown jet
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17:44 UTC+8, 2017-10-10

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Xinhua
Zhang Miao (left) and Zhang Xijin discuss the design of China’s C919 jetliner.

THE C919, China’s first domestically developed narrow-body twin-jet airliner, caught the world’s attention late last month after completing its second test flight from Pudong International Airport.

The C919 single-aisle aircraft made its maiden flight from the same airport on May 5, flying north to Chongming Island and over Nantong in neighboring Jiangsu Province, where it circled awhile before heading home.

The second flight — at two hours and 46 minutes — lasted twice as long. During the flight, the plane completed its first test of lowering and lifting its landing gear in the air, among other missions, according to the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC).

A day after the flight, COMAC and partner United Aircraft Corp of Russia announced that the first long-haul jet developed jointly by both countries will be named CR929, symbolizing the “enduring cooperation of the two sides.”

The wide-body jet will seat 280 and have a range of up to 12,000 kilometers. It is scheduled to make its maiden flight in 2025 and begin deliveries in 2028, according to the China-Russia Commercial Aircraft International Corp, a joint venture based in Shanghai’s Free Trade Zone.

In terms of global aviation, China is thinking big. It has been on a more than three-decade quest to rise to the ranks of nations capable of designing and manufacturing commercial aircraft.

“The C919 marks a new high for China’s aircraft-making,” said Cheng Bushi, 87, the deputy designer of the Y10, China’s first commercial jet, designed in the 1970s. The Y10 with 125 seats flew for more than 170 hours in test flights between 1980 and 1984, but the project was scuttled before reaching commercial viability because of economic and political factors.

Despite setbacks and frustrations, China’s commercial aircraft industry has never looked back. Its progress has been supported by thousands of engineers and aircraft designers.

COMAC was established in Shanghai in 2008 to take charge of developing the C919 project. Though the company is relatively new, many of its senior engineers are veterans of China’s aircraft ambitions.

Zhang Xijin, 83, his son Zhang Miao and Zhang Miao’s apprentice Ma Tuliang are the famous “three-generation trio” at COMAC, who are working together on the C919 project.

Zhang Xijin, a famous aerodynamic specialist, served in a senior position in the COMAC Shanghai Aircraft Design and Research Institute. He took part in the design of eight Chinese aircraft, including the ARJ21, the nation’s first domestically developed regional jet.

“Research conditions were quite tough in the 1970s, when China initially began research on aircraft-making,” Zhang Xijin said. “We often borrowed abacuses from neighboring offices to do calculations.”

Zhang Xijin’s wife Wang Juanzhi was an aerodynamic specialist. Small wonder with parents so concentrated on their jobs that son Zhang Miao didn’t also answer the call of the nation’s aircraft dream. After all, his first name is a Chinese character involved with aerodynamic structures.

Zhang Miao did not disappoint his father. He has become the deputy design director for the C919.

When Zhang senior was about to retire in 2002, he was invited to take part in the ARJ21’s aerodynamic designs. When he was officially retired in 2008, COMAC invited him again to take part in the design for the C919.

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Niu Jianchi / Ti Gong
Zhang Xijin (front right) and Zhang Miao (middle, front row) work with their team on the maiden flight of the C919.

Surpassing expectations

“Work has been more important than my personal life,” he admitted.

Zhang junior said working conditions have improved since his father’s pioneering work in the field, but challenges remain. China has the full intellectual property rights on the C919, based on charts his team painted for the nose, body, wings and other aircraft parts.

“We painted over 2,000 design charts for the wings alone,” Zhang Miao said.

His father added: “A wind tunnel experiment shows China’s first domestically designed supercritical wing works better than expectations.”

Ma Tuliang, an aerodynamic engineer with the institute, was a postgraduate students working under Zhang Miao. He assisted his tutor on the design of the winglets for the C919 and has since become a key aerodynamic designer for the CR929 wide-body passenger jet.

“The most precious thing I learned from the older generation is that gritty determination to succeed,” Ma said.

“With the advanced technology and facilities nowadays, we aim to make some breakthroughs based on the achievements of our forebears.”

The development of a domestically developed large passenger aircraft is “part of the Chinese Dream,” COMAC said.

“The project highlights the demands of China’s fast growing economy and the rapid development of China’s civil aviation industry,” a spokesman for the company said.

Predications are that Chinese airlines will need more than 6,800 new aircraft in the next two decades.

Furthermore, the aircraft industry is seen as a lynchpin in China’s industrial modernization.

Boeing has said every 1 percent increase in sales of airliners expands the national economy by 0.7 percent. The State Council, China’s cabinet, has designated the aeronautical industry as one of 10 pillars in its plan to make China a global manufacturing giant by 2025.

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