It may be the same radar family, with just a different array. Minimize development cost and time by reusing the signal processing algorithms and just put a new array to maximize effective radiated power. I believe this is an approach that some manufacturers are proposing for upgrading older international F-16s; replace the mechanically-scanned antenna and update the computer to handle the beam forming.
Chinese AESA development
- Thread starter Maggern
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It may be the same radar family, with just a different array. Minimize development cost and time by reusing the signal processing algorithms and just put a new array to maximize effective radiated power. I believe this is an approach that some manufacturers are proposing for upgrading older international F-16s; replace the mechanically-scanned antenna and update the computer to handle the beam forming.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
It proves that the project exists.
Yeah, the rumors of J-16 are spreading like wildfire here. But there's no official English news of it yet. We don't need SAC's official confirmation to start threads on their product.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I said in my last post.
I make it that he knows info about the JH-7B. What are you trying to prove? That we can only rely on this guy (who's not living in China) in order to brief us on heavily-guarded projects? And like you mentioned, he follows BBS posts, not actual articles posted on sites.
P.S. He made no reference to J-16. Does that automatically mean that J-16 doesn't exist?
For God's sake, before the first flight, people thought that the J-20 was built by SHENYANG.
And doesn't it surprise you that J-20 was never closely guarded? That means CAC did not want to keep it a secret. That's how people get information.
As for other examples like J-10A and J-10B, no one new any solid information before the first flights.
Read my above paragraphs and previous post. I specified clearly that these are not "articles" like the ones I found on Chinese internet, but posts (just like what "expert" Rick Fisher reads)
Here are French ones:
The "far, far from certain" you are talking about is roughly 7 months.
~
It proves there was work done on it at some point. My whole argument is that they may or may not exist -- therefore we can't act so certain that they do, due to lack of credible rumors and/or photos.
I suppose "spreading like wildfire" and "here" need to be defined. Having a few threads and posts on CDF, key forums and SDF does not mean "wildfire". More like "gentle burning" -- the mass media reports on J-20 in the past week or so can be called "wildfire". The mass media on the DF-21D can be called wildfire.
You said there were no Western reports on J-10B. I gave you a Western report. That's what I was trying to prove.
That's not going to cut it -- a majority of people who knew their information said CAC were the primary contractors. It was like... at least three years ago when people thought SAC were heading it.
Everyone from Rick Fisher to Huitong said it was CAC who were the primary contractors for J-XX/J-20, months, and a good year or two before the first flight.
Right... and JH-7B and J-16 are high priority, top secret proejcts, which is why we haven't heard/seen much of them??
No solid information, but credible rumors and some blurry pictures. Nothing like that for JH-7B -- from the sounds of it JH-7B is a fanboy dream. J-16 I'm willing to give more leeway on but it still can't be considered real. Not real like the way we considered J-XX to be real about three years ago, anyway.
In post #38 you said:
I inferred that you meant "articles", which I think wasn't an overly adventourous belief.
Also, just for the record, I'm not saying that we need experts or news agencies to report on something to confirm a project's existance, or to convince myself -- I'm only bringing this up because you said J-16 was spreading like wildfire in western media.
Yes there's also a thread over at CDF for J-16 as well -- the fact that some forums are picking up on this shows us this project could be real, and there's some interest.
But what there hasn't been is any credible rumors aside from Huitong's post on his site.
Here are French ones:
[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but Asian Defence isn't a very valid source, and frequently misreport.
I can't say what that French site says, but I also question its credibility until someone proves otherwise.
Sure in maybe seven months these two aircraft could be seen in a more credible light.
You imply J-16 will have its first flight in roughly 7 months -- what about JH-7B? Supposedly it's first flight was at least a year ago, how come we've heard no (credible) rumors or even seen blurry pictures of it?
I'm sorry for going so off topic -- Popeye can you move the OT posts to this thread which I just made? (The discussion doesn't quite fit the J-20 thread and a lot of our discussion is about sources and credibility, so I made a thread dedicated to it)
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air...eculation-sources-go-r-s-5448.html#post137426
Thanks.
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air...eculation-sources-go-r-s-5448.html#post137426
Thanks.
pakistan defense com mention of Chinese Aesa antenna mounted on a swashplate platform similiar to Swedish NORA program.
the bigger problem confronting any air force that has there own AESA program was system integration and highly complex solfware.half of cost goes to solfware development.
the bigger problem confronting any air force that has there own AESA program was system integration and highly complex solfware.half of cost goes to solfware development.
can you spread the light on following? I'm little bit confused:
from pakistan defense com, October 2010
"as for AESA, 14 Institute (National Research Institute of Electronic Technology (NRIET)) and 607 institute (Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute (LETRI)) have developed two type products,they are now holding a contest at 630"
630 what? another institute? contest of three?
from SDF, December 2009 by 70092
"Another good news, the AESA radar has been finished
This news have been reported in an news paper run by Chinese military industy:
This news says the AESA for Chinese J-XX has finished, its a X-band AESA radar, developed in 607th research insistitue (LETRI) in Sichuan.
The Vice-commander of China Airforce has been there to accept the radar and praise the team, he said he is very pleased by this news and he think now one of the two challenges (engine and radar) for J-XX have been overcome.
from SDF, week ago by 70092
"Both 14th insistute (NRIET) and the National Radar/Electrionics Insititue (NREI) have produced prototype AESA radars for J-20, both prototype radars are X-band AESA radar and contain 2000+ T/R modules, there is a open competition there and 14th insitute won the competition easily (14th insistute is considerably larger and finanically stronger than NREI), thus their AESA has been selected as the radar for this fighter roughly 2 years ago."
A questions are:
1) What is 630th institute? Third contender for AESA?
2). What the number of NREI institute?
3). AESA radar that LETRI finished in 2009 - now if they are not winner, was it just one of prototype radars intended for contest?
In short, who participated in contest and who finally did win?
Thanks in advance!
from pakistan defense com, October 2010
"as for AESA, 14 Institute (National Research Institute of Electronic Technology (NRIET)) and 607 institute (Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute (LETRI)) have developed two type products,they are now holding a contest at 630"
630 what? another institute? contest of three?
from SDF, December 2009 by 70092
"Another good news, the AESA radar has been finished
This news have been reported in an news paper run by Chinese military industy:
This news says the AESA for Chinese J-XX has finished, its a X-band AESA radar, developed in 607th research insistitue (LETRI) in Sichuan.
The Vice-commander of China Airforce has been there to accept the radar and praise the team, he said he is very pleased by this news and he think now one of the two challenges (engine and radar) for J-XX have been overcome.
from SDF, week ago by 70092
"Both 14th insistute (NRIET) and the National Radar/Electrionics Insititue (NREI) have produced prototype AESA radars for J-20, both prototype radars are X-band AESA radar and contain 2000+ T/R modules, there is a open competition there and 14th insitute won the competition easily (14th insistute is considerably larger and finanically stronger than NREI), thus their AESA has been selected as the radar for this fighter roughly 2 years ago."
A questions are:
1) What is 630th institute? Third contender for AESA?
2). What the number of NREI institute?
3). AESA radar that LETRI finished in 2009 - now if they are not winner, was it just one of prototype radars intended for contest?
In short, who participated in contest and who finally did win?
Thanks in advance!
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SinoSoldier
Colonel
You don't design the nose of an aircraft if it's just gonna be a concept. Deciding whether to go along with a project is part of the concept stage, not the design stage. The nose of the aircraft, incorporating S intakes, is obviously a shot from the design stage. After all, JH-7B was supposed to be all digitally-designed. It means that the project has been underway.
The day before the J-16 info appeared on the Internet, there were NO J-16 reports in Western Internet (although there were plenty in Chinese internet). The day after, there were multiple posts.
Alright, then. Show me the article on the J-10B that Rick Fisher wrote. It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that I'm curious as to what he says.
What do you mean by "a majority". From what I heard, even a "reliable" source like Huitong stated that the J-20 was built at SAC.
Three years ago, the J-20 wasn't even known. 3 years ago, people still sticked to the designations J-13 and J-12.
GlobalSecurity.com even reported that the J-XX consisted of J-12 and J-13 and J-14.
I'm pretty sure a "few" speculated that CAC was more suitable, but until the J-20 was fully released, many people thought that the CAC design lost to the SAC one.
The possibilities of SAC and XAC posting up internet ads and posters about their newest stealth aircraft are pretty close to zero
Define "credible rumor". That's an oxymoron. In fact, most of the so-called "credible rumors" you are talking about are nothing than a few lines of post on BBS threads.
Reports (yes, reports, not BBS) on JH-7B and J-16 are highly detailed, and different articles from different time periods are consistent with each others.
J-20 and J-10B were also fanboy dreams until March 2009 and December 22, 2010, respectively.
Alright, no point in arguing over it, then.
I'm sorry, but Asian Defence isn't a very valid source, and frequently misreport.
I can't say what that French site says, but I also question its credibility until someone proves otherwise.[/QUOTE]
So anything that passes through Asian Defence is "not credible"? They reported J-20 as well.
Asian Defence did not originally report the J-16. They're passing on information. So it's not logical to say that all information on it is not valid.
JH-7B's first flight date is somewhat debated. A guy on YouTube claims that he saw a TV report on the JH-7B, which said its maiden flight was December 23, 2010.
Bltizo, just forget it. It's obvious that sinosoldier and you(and me too) have different criteria for judging the credibility of sources. I mean, the guy was touting a new EM rail gun mounted Chinese MBT just today on pak defence, and you expect to convince him that the JH-7B may not exist? Good luck with that!
Engineer
Major
Well, well, well, what have we have been telling people all this time? That China doesn't have airborne PESA. Now we have an authoritative source confirming this.
