Chinese AAM

Discussion in 'Air Force' started by tphuang, Mar 12, 2006.

  1. Bltizo
    Offline

    Bltizo Lieutenant General

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    11,348
    Likes Received:
    12,991
    in addition to what totoro said, the 2013 study did also mention demands for long range missile would be to hit maneuvring targets, and to enhance the missile's maneuvrability it would have reaction jet thrusters.

    I doubt this thing would have anywhere near the maneuvrability of a 5th generation SRAAM, but given the downwards terminal phase and the kinetic energy it provides, combined with reaction jet thrusters, I can see this being used against far more than only AEW&C or tankers. In the diagram in the study they even explicitly include a b-2 and an f-22 on the other side of the missile's receiving end.
     
  2. AlyxMS
    Offline

    AlyxMS Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2014
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    185
    If the missile is "semi-ballistic" as people suggests, it will spend most of its flight time in altitudes where atmosphere is very thin(20000m+?), wings would provide very little lift with added drag and weight.
    But the lack of lifting surfaces would make it very hard for the missile to maneuver once it returns to mid-low altitude, I wonder if it is enough to lock on a "maneuvering AWACS".
    Although judging from the graph of that research paper, it will fly outside of the detection cone of the AWACS, maybe the AWACS won't be alerted in time to maneuver.
     
  3. plawolf
    Online

    plawolf Brigadier

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    5,760
    Likes Received:
    10,683
    Control surfaces are not the only way to maneuver a missile, most SAMs and SRAAMs all use TVC to aid agility.

    The S300, HQ9 and many other top end SAMs all have minimal control surfaces, but no one doubts their ability to engage agile fighter targets.

    The reason most BVRAAMs still rely heavily on control surfaces is because they can only achieve their highest range figures by turning into gliders (so TVC would obviously not work as there is no thrust to vector).

    Going by the size of this beasty AAM, and the ballistic engagement route, I would say the odds are good the biggest limit to its effective engagement range is going to be targeting, rather than range. As such, for the range figures hinted, it should still be under powered flight. That will make the missile significantly more dangerous to whatever it is shooting at.
     
    perfume, SteelBird and Equation like this.
  4. Bltizo
    Offline

    Bltizo Lieutenant General

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    11,348
    Likes Received:
    12,991
    Also, I feel the need to mention again that the 2013 study (which I translated a few pages back) explicitly mentions the use of reaction jets on the missile to increase manoeuvrability against highly manoeuvrable targets.

    The USAFs aborted JDRADM had a similar (but smaller) configuration to the PL-XX and it too was to field reaction jet systems for increasing end game manoeuvrability.


    So this missile is definitely large, but it shouldn't be considered "only" an anti AEWC missile but rather a general super long range AAM. The 2013 study even has an F-22 on the receiving end of it in the kill chain graphic, which should put little doubt in people's minds as to what this thing is meant to be capable of intercepting.
     
    perfume and Equation like this.
  5. Bltizo
    Offline

    Bltizo Lieutenant General

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    11,348
    Likes Received:
    12,991
    It is meant to have reaction jet system.

    Read the 2013 study which I attached/posted it a few pages back, reply #244 in this thread.
    I translated the key parts from it as well.

    So it isn't just meant to be able to hit an AEWC but also able to hit a stealthy, highly manoeuvrable target like a stealth fighter as well.
     
    perfume, N00813 and Equation like this.
  6. Hendrik_2000
    Offline

    Hendrik_2000 Brigadier

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    5,942
    Likes Received:
    19,591
    From skywatcher blog VLRAAM. I guess this mean the end of third offset or whatever the name is. Just excerpt click the link for the rest of article. Now we know why there are so many variant of J11B,J16,J11D,J15. And why they are priority when it come to WS10 allocation J10 can wait
    http://www.popsci.com/china-new-long-range-air-to-air-missile
    China is testing a new long-range, air-to-air missile that could thwart U.S. plans for air warfare
    The hypersonic missile reaches can take down aircraft from 200 miles.

    By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer November 22, 2016
    [​IMG]
    lt.cjdby.net

    PL-XX

    The J-16 carries two VLRAAM for a test firing.

    In November 2016, a Chinese J-16 strike fighter test-fired a gigantic hypersonic missile, successfully destroying the target drone at a very long range.

    Looking at takeoff photos, we estimate the missile is about 28 percent of the length of the J-16, which measures 22 meters (about 72 feet). The puts the missile at about 19 feet, and roughly 13 inches in diameter. The missile appears to have four tailfins. Reports are that the size would put into the category of a very long range air to air missile (VLRAAM) with ranges exceeding 300 km (roughly 186 miles), likely max out between 250 and 310 miles. (As a point of comparison, the smaller 13.8-foot, 15-inch-diameter Russian R-37 missile has a 249-mile range).

    This is a big deal: this missile would easily outrange any American (or other NATO) air-to-air missile. Additionally, the VLRAAM's powerful rocket engine will push it to Mach 6 speeds, which will increase the no escape zone (NEZ), that is the area where a target cannot outrun the missile, against even supersonic targets like stealth fighters.

    [​IMG]
    lt.cjdby.net

    VLRAAM

    The VLRAAM is one of the world's largest air to air missiles. Its other advanced features include an AESA radar, a infrared/electro-optical seeker (under the yellow-orange cover on the forward section above the nosecone), and satellite navigation midcourse correction.

    The new, larger missile's added value is not just in range. Another key feature: its large active electronically scanned (AESA) radar, which is used in the terminal phase of flight to lock onto the target. The AESA radar's large size—about 300-400% larger than that of most long range air-to-air missiles—and digital adaptability makes it highly effective against distant and stealthy targets, and resilient against electronic countermeasures like jamming and spoofing.

    The VLRAAM's backup sensor is a infrared/electro-optical seeker that can identify and hone in on high-value targets like aerial tankers and airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) radar aircraft. The VLRAAM also uses lateral thrusters built into the rear for improving its terminal phase maneuverability when engaging agile targets like fighters.

    [​IMG]
     
    #286 Hendrik_2000, Nov 25, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
    perfume, bluewater2012 and Equation like this.
  7. Deino
    Offline

    Deino Brigadier
    Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    8,537
    Likes Received:
    20,295
    But just a question ... This report said the missile was actually fired. Do we have proof for that. IMO it was only a captive test.
     
    Equation likes this.
  8. Equation
    Offline

    Equation Lieutenant General

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    10,530
    Likes Received:
    12,114
    Here is some more news on it.

    http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/11/china-successfully-fires-radical-300.html
     
  9. Bltizo
    Offline

    Bltizo Lieutenant General

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    11,348
    Likes Received:
    12,991
    nextbig future is not a very good source just for the record.


    It's good to occasionally post other articles just to see what they're saying but some of the claims they're making are beyond what we know to be true and too many are just opinions as well.

    That is also true in some cases for Eastern Arsenal blog posts (sorry Skywatcher).
     
    zaphd and Equation like this.
  10. Bltizo
    Offline

    Bltizo Lieutenant General

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    11,348
    Likes Received:
    12,991
    I think the only strongest indication we have of it is the "poem" suggesting that a new type weapon had successfully made its first "kill"... and then barely a few days later pictures of this new PL-XX were released... so people put two and two together.
     
Loading...

Share This Page