China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft

Franklin said:

What kind of landing gear does the Y-20 use ? Because both the ARJ-21 and the C-919 uses foreign made landing gears. And those are both lighter planes than the Y-20.

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"What kind" as in whether they're produced in China or not?

Keep in mind that ARJ-21 and C919 both have many foreign components, because they're commercial products meant for commercial buyers.

The likelihood of anyone outside being willing to sell China landing gear for Y-20 is very small indeed. And given the industry's previous experience in making landing gear for larger legacy aircraft such as Y-8/9 and H-6, developing brand new landing gear for a 220+ ton MTOW aircraft is well within the bounds of capability, especially if Antonov assistance was there.

The fact that they are using foreign made landing gear for C919 may not be related to whether China can produce good landing gear for C919, but more to do with having a more reliable supply chain, or having more foreign made subsystems to build a greater sense of "reliability" in the aircraft for commercial sales... small differences in reliability, cost, as well as perception are all very important for commercial airliners. I think that is why C919 features so many foreign subsystems from glass cockpit to landing gear, even though the indigenous industry can likely develop similar products as well.


In other words: military and civil/commercial projects differ in their requirements many of which are not inherently based around "capability", and if a country or an industry can produce one subsystem or one type of subsystem for a military project it does not mean it will necessarily be suitable for a civil/commercial project... and vice versa.

Another caveat: just because one nation is using another nation's subsystem in lieu of their own for a specific project, it does not mean that they do not have a competitive product or the ability to produce a competitive product... it just means that for that specific project, the other nation's subsystem is considered a better fit. for instance, the USN is intending to fit the European CAPTAS sonar aboard their LCS as part of the ASW module -- that doesn't mean the US industry is unable to develop competitive variable depth sonars or that the lack the capability to, it just means that for the LCS project specifically, the European sonar is considered the best fit to the project requirements.

I think perception plays a very important roll in a commercial product. Volvo car is a very good example.
It is almost wholly owned by China, but so far designed by Swedish team in Sweden, it contains less Chinese component compared to VW and Audi. But once the sell to Geely was announced, internet was filled with negative comments that goes like "Chinese product is inferior, Volvo is Chinese now, I will stop buying it anymore", this includes some European friends of mine, so it is not just some big mouth China bashing guys. On the other hand, VW factories in China exports tens of thousands of car engines back to VW in Germany every year which end up in many VW and Audi running all over Europe, but Audi is still regarded as superior to Volvo. Ironic, isn't it? But it is the reality the project has to face, commercial business is very often about perception than really substances when the end user (the passengers here, not airliners) are not knowledgeable enough to judge.

taxiya said:

I think perception plays a very important roll in a commercial product. Volvo car is a very good example.
It is almost wholly owned by China, but so far designed by Swedish team in Sweden, it contains less Chinese component compared to VW and Audi. But once the sell to Geely was announced, internet was filled with negative comments that goes like "Chinese product is inferior, Volvo is Chinese now, I will stop buying it anymore", this includes some European friends of mine, so it is not just some big mouth China bashing guys. On the other hand, VW factories in China exports tens of thousands of car engines back to VW in Germany every year which end up in many VW and Audi running all over Europe, but Audi is still regarded as superior to Volvo. Ironic, isn't it? But it is the reality the project has to face, commercial business is very often about perception than really substances when the end user (the passengers here, not airliners) are not knowledgeable enough to judge.

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That's because VW and Audi are still majority owned by non-Chinese that's why. It's a hidden racism that nobody really from the media wants to talk about.

China Y-20 receiving international orders (please translate for me. I am away from a computer)

在日前北京举办的航空展现场，中国的Y-20获得了亚洲、中东等多个国家的订单！
据北京航空展现场的展销人士透露，中国的Y-20大型运输机首次获得国外订单，而且还是批量的订单，这是值得为中国航空业自豪的时刻！包括委瑞内拉、泰国、马来西亚、埃及等国已经与中国签订了Y-20大型运输机的购买合同，具体购买数量未透露。还有其他多国也对Y-20表达了购买意向。中国国产的大型军用飞机，多次出现在大型航空展上目的就是向海外国家出口的！中国由此进入了国际大型运输机出口国行列。

在此之前中国只有出口过中小型运输机，例如Y-12、Y-7、Y-8系列运输机。在Y-20面世之前中国的大型运输机连自己都还是进口国外的，更谈不上有飞机出口了。在上一届的珠海航展上，中国的大型运输机首次露面，表明了中国已经具备制造出口大型运输机的能力了！

负责Y-20的展销人士谈到；“我国的Y-20大型运输机售价是俄罗斯的YL-76运输机与其改进型YL-276运输机之间，而国外客户选择Y-20是因为具有先进的机体设计，宽体运输机更适合运送重装备，加上中国的售后服务态度优良，这些是Y-20得到国外客户青睐的主要原因”。虽然乌克兰也有先进宽体运输机，但是乌克兰国内的动乱还没完全结束，对于售后没有十足保障的乌克兰军用飞机，国外客户显然是心知肚明的。目前中国为Y-20配套的WS-20发动机正在研发之中，但是出口创汇是不需要等待先进发动机的，只要能飞就可以用，中国已经国产化了俄罗斯的D-30涡轮风扇发动机，国产化的发动机也同时装备在H-6K中程轰炸机上，将来WS-20实用化之后，可以根据客户的选择安装不同性能档次的发动机，组成不同型号的Y-20运输机系列。

A.Man said:

China Y-20 receiving international orders (please translate for me. I am away from a computer).

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Hmmm ... via Bing-translator:

Air show held in Beijing a few days ago, China's Y-20 won the orders in Asia, the Middle East and other countries!

According to sources from the Beijing aviation exhibition, Y-20 large transport orders for the first time in China, but also the volume of the order, this time for China's aviation industry is proud of! Including venezu, Thailand, and Malaysia, and Egypt and other countries have Y-20 of large transport contracts signed with China, and specific purchase amount was not disclosed. There are also other multinational Y-20 expressed purchase intent. Large Chinese-made military aircraft, appears more than once in a large air show aimed at exports to overseas countries! China has entered the international exporter of large transport category.

Prior to China's only export small and medium transport aircraft, for example Y-12, Y-7, Y-8 series of aircraft. Y-20 prior to the launch of China's large transport yourself or import foreign, let alone aircraft exports. On the last Zhuhai air show, China's large transport appeared for the first time, shows that China has the capability to export large transport!

Sales person responsible for Y-20 it comes; "Y-20 large transport cost Russia between the improved YL-276 and YL-76, and chose Y-20 because foreign customers with advanced body design, wide-body aircraft better suited for transporting heavy equipment, coupled with China's after-sales service attitude is good, these are the main reasons Y-20 by foreign customers." Although Ukraine also advanced wide-body aircraft, but Ukraine domestic unrest has not completely finished, sold not fully protected after Ukraine military aircraft and foreign customers is obviously aware of. Currently China for Y-20 supporting of WS-20 engine is development among, but export earned is not need waiting for advanced engine of, as long as can fly on can with, China has localization has Russia of D-30 Turbo fan engine, localization of engine also while equipment in H-6K medium-range bomber Shang, future WS-20 practical of zhihou, can according to customer of select installation different performance grade of engine, composition different model of Y-20 transport series.

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Sound to be too good to be true ! What's the source of this news-report ?

Deino

Deino said:

Hmmm ... via Bing-translator:



Sound to be too good to be true ! What's the source of this news-report ?

Deino

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Bing translator is basically accurate, there is no name of the source in the Chinese version.
The credibility of this piece of news is heavily questioned even on Chinese forums. So I would not spend more time in this right now until a source with real name says otherwise.

I am very doubtful of this news. I traced this news to its originator, a poster called 邪恶恰到好处的个人中心 (not a reporter) posted it on bbs at Tiexue.net on 19th September but none of Chinese news portal including the official website of 2015 Beijing Aviation Expo carry this news.

I highly doubt and really highly doubt Y-20 is going to be cleared for export this soon

It's not even in production yet

asif iqbal said:

I highly doubt and really highly doubt Y-20 is going to be cleared for export this soon

It's not even in production yet

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There is an article I read just the other day hinting production line for Y-20 is being setup. But when will full scale production of Y-20 start I don't know. That's why I didn't bother posting that article, it will be too much interpretation on my part.

Yes but it will take a while for the production line to get geared up

And even longer for production on a large scale to take place

After all this will be China first attempt at large scale large plane construction