China's SCS Strategy Thread

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
@Hendrik_2000
@PanAsian

Even if the US were to refocus on the navy and run a tighter ship with increased budgets, it doesn't really make a difference in the long-term.

At the moment, China's navy is still much smaller in terms of capabilities, even if it is numerically larger.
But starting 5 years ago, Chinese naval construction started to match the US in terms of the number of ship types and capabilities, broadly speaking.

Given that China only spends a modest 2% of GDP on the military, this level of naval construction looks very sustainable, and offers scope for a large increase if necessary.
So eventually the Chinese Navy will be considered equal to that of the US Navy.

There's nothing the US can really do about this, as China's development and military spending is up to China itself.
 
thought

The End of U.S. Naval Dominance in Asia
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might fit in this thread:
The rapid rise of the Chinese Navy has challenged U.S. maritime dominance throughout East Asian waters. The United States, though, has not been able to fund a robust shipbuilding plan that could maintain the regional security order and compete effectively with China’s naval build-up. The resulting transformation of the balance of power has led to fundamental changes in U.S. acquisitions and defense strategy. Nonetheless, the United States has yet to come to terms with its diminished influence in East Asia.

The New Balance of Power in East Asia

In early 2017, the Chinese Navy had
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ships. It now possesses nearly 350 ships and is already larger than the U.S. Navy. China is the largest ship-producing country in the world and at current production rates could soon operate 400 ships. It commissions nearly three submarines each year, and in two years will have more than 70 in its fleet. The Chinese Navy also operates growing numbers of cruisers, destroyers, frigates, and corvettes, all equipped with long-range anti-ship cruise missiles. Between 2013 and 2016, China commissioned more than 30 modern corvettes. At current rates, China could have 430 surface ships and 100 submarines within the next 15 years.

According to the
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, China’s fleet is also now more modern, based on contemporary standards of ship production. In 2010, less than 50 percent of Chinese ships were “modern;” in 2017, over 70 percent were modern. China’s diesel submarines are increasingly quiet and challenge U.S. anti-submarine capabilities. China’s ship-launched and air-launched anti-ship cruise missiles possess significant range and stealth and are guided by increasingly sophisticated targeting technologies. China’s Navy now poses a significant
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to the U.S. surface fleet. Moreover, its DF21C and DF26 conventional intermediate-range ballistic missiles also pose a challenge to U.S. assets in the region, and can target U.S. maritime facilities in South Korea, Japan, the Philippines, Singapore, Malaysia, and Guam.

Despite the growth of the Chinese Navy, the United States retains maritime superiority throughout East Asia. But the trend is what matters and the trend is less rosy. In early 2018, the size of the active U.S. fleet was
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ships. Going forward, according to the Congressional Budget Office, if the Navy’s budget is the average of its budget over the prior 30 years in real dollars and it maintains its aircraft carrier and ballistic submarine construction schedules, in 12 years the active naval fleet will decline to 237 ships. In six years, the U.S. submarine fleet will decline to 48 ships, and in eleven years the number of U.S. attack submarines will decline to 41 ships.

Both the Navy and the White House have pushed to grow the U.S. fleet, but budgets have not kept pace with their plans. In 2015, the Navy planned to increase the fleet to 308 ships by 2022, and the Trump administration plans a 355-ship navy. To reach
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ships, the Navy will have to spend 36 percent more than the average shipbuilding budget over the past 30 years, requiring a one-third increase in its current budget. If funding continues at the average over the past 30 years, the Navy will likely purchase 75 fewer ships than planned over the next three decades. To reach
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ships, the Navy will need a budget 80 percent more than the average Navy shipbuilding budget over the past 30 years and about 50 percent more than the average budget of the past six years. Moreover, the Navy’s
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are understaffed and in poor condition, contributing to delays in maintenance and reduced ship-days at sea. It is also currently experiencing significant challenges in meeting
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requirements,
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problems are increasing, and the U.S shipbuilding
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has been in decline over the past decade. Adequate staffing and construction of a larger fleet is by no means assured.

Reallocation of the federal budget to support ship construction is not likely. Mandatory spending and interest payments on the federal debt constitute 68 percent of the federal budget, and in recent years Washington has increased spending on Medicare, Medicaid, transportation, and veterans. The Pentagon already receives over 55 percent of the discretionary budget. The United States will not raise taxes to increase funding for the Navy; instead, it reduced taxes earlier this year. Nor can the United States print more money and increase the federal deficit to increase naval spending; the harm to the economy would offset any benefit that a larger navy might contribute to U.S. security. To contend with the national debt, the White House has told the Pentagon to expect that defense spending will “
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” in the near future. Finally, although the Navy, the Army, and the Air Force receive approximately equal shares of the annual defense budget, there is little resolve in Washington to reallocate funding within the military.

But even a 355-ship navy would be inadequate to contend with China’s capacity to continue and expand its naval build-up. As a share of GDP, the U.S. defense budget is nearly 75 percent larger than China’s defense budget. In contrast to the United States, China’s social welfare budget, including veterans’ benefits, is a minimal part of its national budget. China does not have a costly volunteer force, it can easily reallocate defense spending to support its navy, and it is not involved in distant wars that strain its military budget. It is better positioned that the United States for a maritime arms race.

Developments in the maritime balance have weakened the confidence of East Asian countries in the ability of the United States to fulfill its security commitments and they are improving security cooperation with China. South Korea recently reached an agreement with China to limit missile-defense cooperation with the United States and security cooperation with the U.S.-Japan alliance, and it has moved ahead with cooperation with North Korea, with Chinese support and despite U.S. opposition. The Philippines has reduced the scale of its defense cooperation with the United States and improved security ties with China. Beijing now constrains Vietnamese defense cooperation with the United States, as well. And China and Malaysia have begun joint military exercises and Malaysia has not supported U.S. policy on Chinese claims in the South China Sea. Most recently, China and ASEAN have
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their first joint naval exercise. The United States enjoys continued robust defense cooperation with all of these countries. But, as is the case with the maritime balance, it is the trend that matters and the trend is not good for U.S. security.


...
... goes on below due to size limit
 
the rest of
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from the post right above
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The U.S. Navy Adjusts

The combination of China’s rising naval capabilities, the PLA’s ability to target U.S. naval access to regional maritime facilities, and declining alliance cooperation has compelled the United States to adjust its security policy to contend with emerging Chinese war-fighting capabilities within East Asian seas—the Yellow Sea, the East China Sea, and the South China Sea.

The U.S. Navy is relying on technology to compensate for declining ship numbers. It is developing longer-range anti-ship
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missiles to contend with China’s anti-ship cruise missiles, and
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torpedoes to contend with China’s submarine fleet. It is developing “
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to contend with the quantity of Chinese ships and their ability to “swarm” against U.S. ships. It is also developing directed energy and long-range hypersonic railgun technologies. Most significant, the Navy is focused on developing large quantities of
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as its long-term solution to declining ship numbers. It is developing and testing undersea
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and
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,
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reconnaissance drones that can operate in large numbers to allow simultaneous targeting of multiple Chinese platforms, carrier-based attack drones and
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, air-launched
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drones, and
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for minesweeping operations and
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warfare.

The United States now faces a future without assured access to the South China Sea and U.S. naval facilities in the region, and with reduced cooperation from its allies. To compensate, it is placing greater emphasis on its strategy for the “Indo-Pacific” region—a shift from its previous focus on the “Asia-Pacific.” This is more than just a name-change. Key to this Indo-Pacific strategy is greater access to Indian and Australian facilities that are secure from Chinese submarines and surface ships. These facilities will enable the U.S. Navy to contend with the Chinese Navy from outside the South China Sea and to deny the Chinese Navy access to the Indian Ocean and the Western Pacific. Recent
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reflect U.S. efforts to expand its access to Indian naval facilities so that the U.S. Navy can operate in the Bay of Bengal and to the west of the Malaccan Strait. Similarly, expanding U.S.-Australian cooperation in Western Australia, including U.S. interest in Cocos Island, will enable the U.S. Navy to operate south of Indonesia to project power into the South China Sea. The Navy’s transition to operating from distant naval facilities and contending with China’s long-range capabilities has required it to develop extended ranges for its
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and EA-18G
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electronic warfare.

But these developments in acquisitions and expanded out-of-region operations cannot solve the Navy’s problem of a smaller fleet contending with a rising naval power. U.S. technological advantages over China narrow every year and quantity can be just as important as quality in maritime security.

Moreover, the increased tempo of the U.S. Navy’s operations in East Asia have led to inadequate ship maintenance, insufficient training of sailors, and over-extended tours at sea. Recent naval accidents in East Asia reflect the
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of up-tempo presence operations on the Indo-Pacific Fleet.

The Navy at Sea

The U.S. Navy has responded predictably to its declining capabilities, eroding dependability of its allies, and reduced access to regional facilities. It is increasing its shows of military force to establish greater U.S. resolve to resist the rise of China, even as its relative capabilities decline. During the Trump administration, U.S. freedom of navigation operations (FONOP) near Chinese-claimed maritime features has increased to approximately one mission every two months, doubling the pace of the Obama administration’s FONOP operations. In June 2018, after China increased its deployments on disputed islands, the United States sailed two ships within 12 miles of Chinese-claimed Paracel Islands. China
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with a simultaneous naval transit near the islands, signaling heightened maritime tension and greater Chinese resolve to challenge U.S. naval presence in its coastal waters. In
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and
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2018, the United States sent B-52 bombers near China’s artificial islands.

The United States conducts FONOPs to challenge the maritime claims of many countries each year, but only in the South China Sea does the U.S. Navy carry out multiple highly-publicized missions. And only in the South China Sea does the U.S. Navy conduct overflights of disputed territories with
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by U.S. journalists aboard the aircraft. These South China Sea operations aim to establish U.S.
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to contend with China’s rising naval capabilities, not to establish a U.S. commitment to the principle of freedom of navigation.

Despite the recent over-extension of the Pacific fleet and the resulting safety and training issues, the U.S. Navy has thus insisted that it will “confront” China and it has stressed the importance of its
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in East Asian waters and its plans to
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its regional operations. Secretary of Defense James
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reported that the United States will “demonstrate resolve through operational presence in the South China Sea.” In November 2018, the Navy carried out its
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exercise ever with Japan. But increased up-tempo U.S. naval presence in East Asia without the requisite underlying naval capabilities to contend with China’s rise will neither constrain China’s naval activism nor reassure U.S. allies. What it will do is further overextend the Navy and exacerbate the Navy’s existing maintenance and readiness problems, making U.S. ships more vulnerable to accidents at sea and cutting into the shipbuilding budget. This is especially the case as the Navy expands its operations on the Russian periphery.

This tension in the U.S. Navy’s East Asian strategy reflects the expected quandary of a declining power. The United States resists ceding greater regional influence to a rising great-power competitor. But its efforts to compensate for its eroding relative capabilities by expanding the Navy’s regional presence may well undermine its long-term ability to adjust to and contend with rising China.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Mahathir on China

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Nov 20, 2018

On a separate matter, Dr Mahathir said it was more important that ships passed through the South China Sea freely than to lay claims on the disputed area.

"The Chinese lay claim on the South China Sea by virtue of its name. But at the moment, ships can pass through the Straits of Malacca and the South China Sea.

"The sea is the main communication line, so China wants to make sure the sea is free for its own trade to carry on.

"I don't think they want to stop other ships from passing through, and I think Malaysia can live with that," he said.

However, he said the purchase of Malaysian land by Chinese nationals should not be encouraged.

"The Chinese have so much money they could literally buy up the whole of Malaysia.

"If they did that we would become a province of China," he said.

Read more
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@Hendrik_2000
@PanAsian

Even if the US were to refocus on the navy and run a tighter ship with increased budgets, it doesn't really make a difference in the long-term.

At the moment, China's navy is still much smaller in terms of capabilities, even if it is numerically larger.
But starting 5 years ago, Chinese naval construction started to match the US in terms of the number of ship types and capabilities, broadly speaking.

Given that China only spends a modest 2% of GDP on the military, this level of naval construction looks very sustainable, and offers scope for a large increase if necessary.
So eventually the Chinese Navy will be considered equal to that of the US Navy.

There's nothing the US can really do about this, as China's development and military spending is up to China itself.

Some want to contain China, because they are convinced that China is an enemy.

But most feel that China isn't playing fair in the global trading system.

When I said running a tighter ship I meant domestic policies in general, not limited to military procurement that's not wasteful or inefficient.

A perfect example being a major reason behind US propaganda focus on "unfair" China trade is that the US can't and/or won't address its internal economic inefficiency and displacement problems rooted in trade in general and exacerbated by the self-inflicted late-2000's financial crisis and its handling through today.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
When I said running a tighter ship I meant domestic policies in general, not limited to military procurement that's not wasteful or inefficient.

A perfect example being a major reason behind US propaganda focus on "unfair" China trade is that the US can't and/or won't address its internal economic inefficiency and displacement problems rooted in trade in general and exacerbated by the self-inflicted late-2000's financial crisis and its handling through today.

Even if the US addressed its domestic issues, the US has limited scope for fast growth, because its economy is already at the technological frontier.

This has little impact on the long-term development of the Chinese economy, which is what will fund China's military spending.

Yes, the trade deficit is a result of US domestic policies and the role of the US dollar as the global reserve currency. And if it wasn't China exporting to the USA, then it would be other countries that would be exporting to the USA instead.

But I do think China can afford to conform or yield on some of the IP issues, because the level of Chinese R&D spending means it shouldn't be an issue for China to develop alternatives by itself.
 

supercat

Major
China and Philippines sign oil and gas exploration deal as Xi Jinping meets Rodrigo Duterte
  • Xi describes visit as ‘milestone’ in relations, saying they will ‘continue to manage contentious issues and promote maritime consultation’
  • Duterte says ‘there is deepening trust and confidence of government’
Beijing and Manila have agreed to a joint oil and gas exploration deal – one of 29 deals that were signed on Tuesday as Chinese President Xi Jinping began a two-day state visit to the Philippines.

The two nations also signed a memorandum of understanding to cooperate on Beijing’s vast trade and infrastructure strategy, the “Belt and Road Initiative”, and agreed to boost ties.

After meeting Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte for talks, Xi described the visit as a “milestone” in the countries’ relations. Xi is the first Chinese leader to visit Manila in 13 years.

The trip is widely seen as part of Beijing’s efforts to move closer to the Philippines – despite their long-running dispute over the South China Sea – by extending investment and aid to the United States ally.

“China and the Philippines have a lot of common interests in the South China Sea,” Xi said after the talks. “We will continue to manage contentious issues and promote maritime cooperation through friendly consultation.”

He also said China would work with other Southeast Asian countries to finalise a code of conduct for the disputed waters within three years.

Duterte said China and the Philippines had pushed forward bilateral cooperation in a wide range of areas in recent years.

“I am pleased with the current positive momentum of the Philippine-China relations,” Duterte said. “There is deepening trust and confidence of government.”

Zhang Xuegang, a Southeast Asian affairs expert at the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, said the oil and gas exploration agreement set an example for other claimants in the South China Sea.

“These two countries that once ended up at an international tribunal have now sat down and reached a deal through talks. This has positive implications for regional peace and cooperation,” Zhang said.

Details of the oil and gas deal, including its location, were not immediately disclosed, but according to a draft framework released by Philippine opposition Senator Antonio Trillanes, exploration would be carried out based on the principles of mutual respect and benefit, and would not affect the two nations’ positions on sovereignty and maritime rights.

But the exploration deal is seen by some in the Philippines as undermining the country’s territorial claims in the South China Sea. Before Xi arrived, hundreds of protesters descended on the Chinese embassy in Manila to voice their opposition to the Duterte administration seeking closer ties with Beijing.

“Philippines is not for sale,” the marchers chanted, as some brandished signs saying “China out of Philippine waters” in reference to their dispute over the South China Sea.

Critics are most concerned about Duterte’s decision to set aside a major 2016 ruling from an international tribunal that declared Beijing’s expansive claim over the waterway as being without basis, in favour of courting Chinese investment.

“The reality is that the Philippines under Duterte may have squandered the most solid legal ground it has against China in the South China Sea conflict,” Philippine Senator Leila De Lima said.

A survey of 1,500 adults released by research institute Social Weather Stations found 84 per cent of Filipinos disagreed with taking a laissez-faire approach to Beijing’s moves to build infrastructure and install military equipment in the strategic waters.

High-level exchanges between the two nations were suspended after Duterte’s predecessor, Benigno Aquino, took the dispute to a tribunal in The Hague. But ties have warmed under Duterte, who has not challenged Beijing’s territorial claims in the South China Sea and has pivoted Manila away from Washington since he came to power in 2016.

In opening remarks during their talks, Duterte described Xi’s visit as a “historic occasion”, while Xi said it would be a “milestone in the history of exchange between our two countries”.

“Our two countries will always be good neighbours, good friends, partners and enjoy common development and prosperity,” Xi said.

China and the Philippines also signed an agreement to finance the Kaliwa dam project, deals to build a 581km railway line from Los Banos to Matnog, on currency swaps, and for infrastructure development in Duterte’s hometown Davao.

Xi also said the two nations would cooperate on law enforcement. China has previously donated US$22 million worth of guns and ammunition to the Philippine National Police.

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anzha

Senior Member
Registered Member
China has installed a new platform on a remote part of the Paracel Islands in the disputed South China Sea which could be used for military purposes, according to recent satellite images reviewed by a U.S. think tank.

...

The Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative of Washington’s Center for Strategic and International Studies said the images showed a “modest new structure” on Bombay Reef, topped by a radome and solar panels.

“The development is interesting given Bombay Reef’s strategic location, and the possibility that the structure’s rapid deployment could be repeated in other parts of the South China Sea,” the group said in a statement on Tuesday.

The purpose of the platform and radome was unclear, but it could be for military use, it said.


“The reef is directly adjacent to the major shipping lanes that run between the Paracels and the Spratly Islands to the south, making it an attractive location for a sensor array to extend Chinese radar or signals intelligence collection over that important sea lane,” the group said.

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Google Maps says this is the Bombay Reef:

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