China's V/STOL studies, concepts & considerations

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
AVIC developing ultrafast tilt-rotor aircraft
By Zhao Lei in Harbin | China Daily | Updated: 2016-12-21 07:13


Chinese helicopter designers are focusing on the development of an ultrafast tilt-rotor aircraft capable of flying 500 kilometers per hour, the nation's top helicopter researcher said.

Wu Ximing, chief helicopter designer at State-owned aircraft giant Aviation Industry Corp of China, told China Daily on Monday that researchers at the company's Helicopter Research and Development Institute are developing the Blue Whale tilt-rotor aircraft, China's equivalent of the United States' Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey.

"We will design two variants of the Blue Whale - a medium-duty type and a heavy-duty one. The medium-duty model will have a maximum takeoff weight of 20 metric tons, and the heavy-duty model 40 tons. They can fly as fast as 500 km/h," Wu said.

Modern helicopters usually have a maximum speed ranging from 250 to 300 km/h.

The aircraft will be able to conduct vertical takeoff and landing in tough terrain like a conventional helicopter, and will have a longer range and higher cruising speed that can compare to turboprop jets, Wu said, adding it can also carry heavier payloads than helicopters.

With four rotors, the Blue Whale will have better reliability, maneuverability and safety than its US counterpart, the V-22 Osprey, he added.

Wu expects the tilt-rotor to conduct a wide variety of tasks, such as disaster relief, supply airdrop and other emergency response operations.

AVIC sees the importance of developing the ultrafast tilt-rotor aircraft, he said, adding, however, that it will be a long time before they are ready for mass production due to the technological complexity.

An earlier report by China Aviation News, a newspaper owned by AVIC, quoted engineers at the Helicopter Research and Development Institute as saying that the Blue Whale will have a flight range of 3,100 km and meet demands of rapid troop deployment of the Chinese army and navy.

The US is flight testing the Sikorsky S-97 Raider high-speed armed helicopter. Sikorsky Aircraft, the manufacturer, said it has a cruising speed of 407 km/h, more than 100 km/h faster than the US' Boeing AH-64 Apache that is widely considered the best combat helicopter in the world.

Russia is also researching designs for a stealth combat helicopter with ultrafast speed, Russian media has reported.
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still Vaporware.
 

Blitzo

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still Vaporware.

For China though, AVIC making a statement like this means quite a bit more than it would be in other countries.

It is quite rare for the Chinese defence industry to repeatedly mention development of a new project by name in its early stages of the process. I think the civil uses of the aircraft is one reason why they're slightly more willing to talk about it.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
For China though, AVIC making a statement like this means quite a bit more than it would be in other countries.

It is quite rare for the Chinese defence industry to repeatedly mention development of a new project by name in its early stages of the process. I think the civil uses of the aircraft is one reason why they're slightly more willing to talk about it.
va·por·ware
ˈvāpərˌwer
noun COMPUTING informal
software or hardware that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, either because it is only a concept or because it is still being written or designed.
IE until they start building a prototype it is Vaporware. And given the rarity or tiltrotors, long development time we are looking mid to late 2030's earliest.

Although it's civil is interesting it's military potential is more so. 20 metric ton payload would place it at over double that of the V22 Osprey and CH47 Chinook in roughly the same cargo payload as the C130, Y8 or Mi26. That would give them a leap ahead in vertical employment, the ability to deploy via aircraft at long range infantry and special forces at a high speed from well beyond the horizon. Today the V22 gives that to the US but V22 can only bring light weapons at full range. Compact sized unarmored utility 4x4s with 120mm mortars, 105mm howitzers, or under slung 155mm towed howitzers. not much more.
quad-tiltrotor-concept-gfx-0905-3a.jpg
A 20 ton payload tiltrotor could actually bring in vehicles like the WZ-551 light armor, 90 infantrymen, light vehicle mounted Air defence systems, potentially surface to surface missile systems. It could be loaded from a ship take off and land vertically on unprepared fields. A major advantage.
 

Blitzo

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va·por·ware
ˈvāpərˌwer
noun COMPUTING informal
software or hardware that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, either because it is only a concept or because it is still being written or designed.

That's one definition for it, though I'm more familiar with this definition of the word:
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Computer Slang. a product, especially software, that is promoted or marketed while it is still in development and that may never be produced.

And that's why I'm saying it's important that AVIC is still talking about it, because from China they rarely give these sort of updates unless there's some serious backing behind it. Of course, technically it's always possible that it might end up getting cancelled or abandoned for whatever reason in the future...

... but for anyone familiar with PLA watching, the fact that AVIC have talked about blue whale again should not be responded with "oh still vapourware" but rather "they are still continuing development of this project, and it seems like they are even doubling down on it happening".



The problem I have with "still vaporware" is because it doesn't give sufficient acknowledgement of how freaking rare and how freaking consequential it is for them to even comment about a project like this, let alone give the kinds of details they did, and coming from you who's been here long enough to know the ins and outs of PLA watching, it is just a bizarre comment to make.
 

delft

Brigadier
In the early '60's there was a German project to develop a tandem tilt rotor aircraft to transport passengers "to and from Mediterranean holiday resorts as these developed and decayed so fast that it might not be worthwhile to build a conventional air port". o_O
With four rotors, the Blue Whale will have better reliability, maneuverability and safety than its US counterpart, the V-22 Osprey, he added.
The better safety is to be achieved by using four engines rather than from the use of four rotors.
This configuration demands the use of multiple gear boxes and the weight of gear boxes grows more than proportional with the power transmitted. Whatever else this says it means the designers have confidence in their ability to design and manufacture those gear boxes for aircraft able to carry at least 20 tons.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The problem I have with "still vaporware" is because it doesn't give sufficient acknowledgement of how freaking rare and how freaking consequential it is for them to even comment about a project like this, let alone give the kinds of details they did, and coming from you who's been here long enough to know the ins and outs of PLA watching, it is just a bizarre comment to make.
Well I am not that big in the PLA Aviation area, I tend to the small arms and world threads with an eye on rotary wing more than most. So when ic comes to Avic or other firms I am still a novice. I am also kinda Skeptical as the US Quad tilt rotor program had similar billing but never materialized.
 

delft

Brigadier
Well I am not that big in the PLA Aviation area, I tend to the small arms and world threads with an eye on rotary wing more than most. So when ic comes to Avic or other firms I am still a novice. I am also kinda Skeptical as the US Quad tilt rotor program had similar billing but never materialized.
An aircraft of this configuration has flown (
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) but this wiki page nor I know of another one. It might be the problems have by now been solved. The development of the configuration which led to V-22 began in a German company, Weser Flugzeugbau, in 1944, the year I was born.

I hope the Chinese design will use contra-rotating propellers because they are more efficient especially at low speed, take off and landing so you can use smaller engines, and at high speed. The objection is the weight and reliability of the gear box of course but if they can handle the connecting gear boxes this shouldn't be too difficult.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
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The Us started small and worked up to V22 Osprey, the V280 valor program takes lessons learned form the Osprey and takes it evolutionarily. The V22 design work started in 1989 it's sucess was paid for in blood, sweat, tears and sadly lives. The main keys for it's sucess have been advances in Avionics, Hydraulics and mechanics. The Chinese Aviation industry has achieved a lot but much of that work was done incrementally just as the Osprey can be traced back through a series of X plane demonstrators so has the products we see the Chinese working on now. but they have not shown any real full sized tiltrotors before. So Ambition is not lacking.
The biggest issues that have limited tiltrotors is engines and Transmissions. getting the power of a full helicopter from a shorter rotor that can then be tamed to a turbo prop.
 

delft

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The Us started small and worked up to V22 Osprey, the V280 valor program takes lessons learned form the Osprey and takes it evolutionarily. The V22 design work started in 1989 it's sucess was paid for in blood, sweat, tears and sadly lives. The main keys for it's sucess have been advances in Avionics, Hydraulics and mechanics. The Chinese Aviation industry has achieved a lot but much of that work was done incrementally just as the Osprey can be traced back through a series of X plane demonstrators so has the products we see the Chinese working on now. but they have not shown any real full sized tiltrotors before. So Ambition is not lacking.
The biggest issues that have limited tiltrotors is engines and Transmissions. getting the power of a full helicopter from a shorter rotor that can then be tamed to a turbo prop.
I know, TE. The US took up the road to V-22 with the Bell XV-3 of the mid-50's. One advantage the modern developer has is that (s)he can not only simulate the machine in a computer but also build a physical model and fly it unmanned. With 3D printing the build time can then be much shorter than using the old way and you can avoid the cost of protecting a test pilot.

The gear box between an engine and a helicopter rotor is heavier than between an engine and V/STOL rotor because the speed ratio in the helicopter is larger. But there is in both the connection to another rotor, either to the tail rotor or the transmission to the other rotor(s). An advantage in contra-rotating rotors is that the rotors can be a little smaller and so the rotation speed a little larger even at a better efficiency so there is some compensation for the greater complexity of the gear box.
 
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