China's Defense Spending Thread

[antiterror13]

I am assuming 26K Yuan or roughly US$4K a year ... quite low for Western standard but should be enough in China. Remember soldiers would have , "free" accommodation, clothes, food, etc.

Overtime soldiers salary will increase to roughly on average $15K a year ... or would cost PLA ~US$30B ... should be ok ... I'd expect by 2020 .. by that time I'd imagine PLA budget would be over $200B ... so $20B would be ~10% of total PLA budget.

Does anybody know the proportion of total salary to total defense budget in the US, Europe, UK and Asia ? I'd expect very high in the UK, Europe and Japan

I found this interesting for the US defense spending, roughly 25% for Military Personnel, not sure whether it means salary ? or includes Veterans cost as well?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[schlieffen]

Where do you get your numbers? Is the 26k/yr in USD? Do you know the prevailing minimum wages in major cities or provinces?

The rest of your comments sound more like political rumbling based more on ideology than facts.

The 26k figure came from 2013 census. Go to the website of national bureau of statistic and you’ll find it.


Of course it’s RMB. For heaven's sake how could it possibly be USD? Not even Shanghai or Shenzhen has a median income of 26k USD. The Shanghai figure is actually $9k in case you're wondering.


And minimal wage of where? I was born in a city of millions, just 90 minutes driving from Shanghai – definitely not the less developed part of China – and the minimal wage of my hometown in the year 2015 is RMB 19k/yr. The city next to mine, where many of my extended family came from, has a minimal wage of 17.5k. Satisfied? You do realize that China is much more than a handful of advanced costal cities don’t you? Of the 600+ million urban population of China, the great majority live in lesser cities and inner provinces. Also I said ‘income’ instead of wage so you have to average for those who don’t earn a salary, leds to higher actual average wage. To me 26k seems completely believable.


Of course you’re free to disagree with my political views but I’d like to make sure we live in the same universe. I do not came from a country where some 30k RMB can be easily ridiculed by the vast majority of the people. Maybe that's the China in your world?

 

[weig2000]

The 26k figure came from 2013 census. Go to the website of national bureau of statistic and you’ll find it.

Here is what I found on the

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

:

4-11 Average Wage of Employed Persons in Urban Units and Related Indices (2014 Average Wage in Yuan):

Beijing 93006
Tianjin 67773
Hebei 41501
Shanxi 46407
Inner Mongolia 50723

Liaoning 45505
Jilin 42846
Heilongjiang 40794

Shanghai 90908
Jiangsu 57177
Zhejiang 56571
Anhui 47806
Fujian 48538
Jiangxi 42473
Shandong 46998

Henan 38301
Hubei 43899
Hunan 42726
Guangdong 53318
Guangxi 41391
Hainan 44971

Chongqing 50006
Sichuan 47965
Guizhou 47364
Yunnan 42447
Tibet 57773

Shaanxi 47446
Gansu 42833
Qinghai 51393
Ningxia 50476
Xinjiang 49064

On the same page, the average wages in yuan 2004 - 2013:

2004 15920
2005 18200
2006 20856
2007 24721
2008 28898
2009 32244
2010 36539
2011 41799
2012 46769
2013 51483

Are we looking at the same site?

 

[antiterror13]

I think the Schlieffen said Median ... not Average

Median is a better representation ...... in my opinion

 

[weig2000]

The 26k figure came from 2013 census. Go to the website of national bureau of statistic and you’ll find it.


Of course it’s RMB. For heaven's sake how could it possibly be USD? Not even Shanghai or Shenzhen has a median income of 26k USD. The Shanghai figure is actually $9k in case you're wondering.


And minimal wage of where? I was born in a city of millions, just 90 minutes driving from Shanghai – definitely not the less developed part of China – and the minimal wage of my hometown in the year 2015 is RMB 19k/yr. The city next to mine, where many of my extended family came from, has a minimal wage of 17.5k. Satisfied? You do realize that China is much more than a handful of advanced costal cities don’t you? Of the 600+ million urban population of China, the great majority live in lesser cities and inner provinces. Also I said ‘income’ instead of wage so you have to average for those who don’t earn a salary, leds to higher actual average wage. To me 26k seems completely believable.


Of course you’re free to disagree with my political views but I’d like to make sure we live in the same universe. I do not came from a country where some 30k RMB can be easily ridiculed by the vast majority of the people. Maybe that's the China in your world?

A random search on Chinese websites found this news:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The last paragraph:

刘辉：按照以前的规定，作战营里是没有高级士官编制的，当了士官长之后，我有更多的竞争机会选高级士官。

　　画外：士官长最高服役年限可达29年，他们比同级别的普通士官每月多400元岗位津贴，平均工资7000元以上，并有独立的办公住宿房间。士官长制度为基层士官人才长期部队服役提供了条件，给他们选择退休、自主择业等出路提供了更多的可能性

For those who do read Chinese, this is from China's official new agency Xinhua News. The above paragraph says that PLA is retaining some more experienced soldiers from ordinary soldiers for longer service time, up to 29 years. They are paid more than 400 yuan/month compared to average solider, above 7,000 yuan/month.

So the average soldiers are paid more than 6,600 yuan/month, that's more than 1k USD.

Now you tell me which universe you live.

 

[antiterror13]

US$1.1K a month is not bad at all ..... also I heard in China there is 13th salary during Chinese new year ..... so roughly US$13.2K a year and + "free" meal, uniforms, shoes, accommodations, etc, etc ... not bad at all ... no wonder the competition to be a soldier in China is very tough

so, if it is the case, total salary would be around $30B for PLA ..... or roughly 20% of total defense budget

 

[weig2000]

I think the Schlieffen said Median ... not Average

Median is a better representation ...... in my opinion

The truth is, it'll be difficult for you to hire a nanny for 5k yuan/month in relatively large cities in today's China. And today's PLA is not your grandpa's PLA any more. They are only enlisting high school graduates and increasingly college graduates (particularly for navy and air force).

I'm not going to bore the members of this forum with a lot of Chinese postings since this is primarily an English forum. Suffice it to say that a lot of people - doesn't matter you're from China or elsewhere - still live in a different age and universe and think PLA are mostly a peasant army. Not anymore. See below.

Here is the an article on the 2015 official enlisting criteria for PLA Army, Navy and Air Force:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

PS: My apology to non-Chinese speaking members for linking several pages in Chinese above. I could not find English ones. It's important to get the record straight, though.

 

[weig2000]

US$1.1K a month is not bad at all ..... also I heard in China there is 13th salary during Chinese new year ..... so roughly US$13.2K a year and + "free" meal, uniforms, shoes, accommodations, etc, etc ... not bad at all ... no wonder the competition to be a soldier in China is very tough

so, if it is the case, total salary would be around $30B for PLA ..... or roughly 20% of total defense budget

PLA has become increasingly a high-tech military, with all the weapons and equipment that have come into service in the last decade, as surely members of this forum can testify. They have to compete with civilian sectors for talents. China is no longer a cheap place. That's another reason that I believe China will need to increase its defense spending annually just to keep up. The average Chinese income have grown faster than GDP growth in the last couple of years (~10$%) despite the economy slowdown.

 

[schlieffen]

Here is what I found on the

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

:

Are we looking at the same site?

Jesus Christ, is it so hard to understand the difference between income and wage? Wage by necessity can only be divided by the number of residents who actually earn a wage, in other words the workforce, whereas income can be averaged by the entire population.I was always referring to income and never said anything about wage.


BTW the source is here

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[schlieffen]

A random search on Chinese websites found this news:

For those who do read Chinese, this is from China's official new agency Xinhua News. The above paragraph says that PLA is retaining some more experienced soldiers from ordinary soldiers for longer service time, up to 29 years. They are paid more than 400 yuan/month compared to average solider, above 7,000 yuan/month.

So the average soldiers are paid more than 6,600 yuan/month, that's more than 1k USD.

Now you tell me which universe you live.

You’re either completely clueless about what you’re talking about, or was deliberately misleading those who cannot read Chinese.


First of all, ‘士官长’ refers specifically to Non-commissioned Officers of ranks IV to VII who are assigned to ‘分队’ as oppose to ’部队’. Do you understand what a NCO is? NCOs are professional soldiers, not conscripts, although they’re often selected from conscripts who’re willing to sign up for longer service. It’s a job. The comparison between NCO and enlist rank is completely irrelevant. The former earns an salary, whereas the latter are only given an allowance.


BTW rank IV and V are mid-level NCO, whereas rank VI and VII are rare and enjoy a very high status in the military – for example a rank VI NCO was given the same perk (待遇) as the regimental commander, that is a lieutenant colonel.


Second, in the article the earning of and ‘士官长’ was compared with not a rank, but a fellow NCO ‘普通士官’. He earn 400 yuans more than not an junior enlist, but a NCO of the same rank but lacks the ‘士官长’ status. Importantly, in Chinese the word ‘士兵’ (soldier) was used strictly to describe enlisted ranks, and must not be used on NCOs and commissioned officers. Although the word 士兵 does translates to soldier, it cannot be used as a general term of service personnel – in contrast to English – the proper term is 军人 or literally military service personnel.


So lets look at a rough but proper summary of the article:


For the first time in history PLA has introduced the rank 士官长 to battalion level. They are NCOs of rank IV and above but directly participate in the administration of their units, easing the burden of commissioned officers, allowing them to focus on the art of command and keep pace with rapidly advancing military science.


Notes mine: previously senior NCOs in PLA are mostly senior technicians who do not participate the administration of enlisted ranks and don’t play a leadership role. They’re more like warrant officers in western military than real NCOs.


They serve longer and earn in average 7k yuans/month, 400 yuans more than ordinary NCOs. The introduction of 士官长 gives senior NCOs a better prospect of promotion and career security.