China's bid for influence in Nepal

Aerodriver

New Member
The railroad was not built because of the strength of Tibet’s economy, it was built to strengthen it, just as building the railroads to the west of America opened up the west coast and enabled it to develop. It is almost impossible to stop Special Forces attacks on a railroad of that size. If China did position enough troops to stop attacks along the whole railway it would not have enough to fight the war. It takes only a team of two men to sneak in and blow up the track, yes it would be repaired but it is quicker to blow something up than fix it- look at the use of units such as the SAS in Sadam’s back yard during gulf war one.
The French rail network was crippled by a combination of French resistance fighters and allied aircraft, thus denying it to the Germans and they had to rely on the road system. My point is that that railroad is not going to be able to supply an army fighting India, because there are not enough tracks and it would always be targeted. A rail track that long would be a prime target for the Indians.
And if it really is out of range of Indian aircraft then it does not reach the border region and it is less useful because where do the supplies go from the end point.
I did not say the AA units or PLAAF have disbanded, but it is impossible to cover such a wide area completely, the AA units might cover stations but what about open country?
There is also on old saying in air warfare- the bombers will always get through, yes some will get shot down, but some will get through.
I do not know where you live in China but if you travel to the areas you describe you will see large bill boards with the railways and trains pictured (and lovely looking trains they are) and messages saying they have been built to improve to economy.
As for you comment about walk......I have never mentioned the road network, I have only talked about the railway.
Anyway we have drifted way of the topic of Nepal. Maybe we should start a new post- as it seems that it is an interesting debate.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Hmm a few points here to discuss.

First off I would say yes the primary purpose of the railway is economic, but as this is a milirary forum, I am looking at the military aspect of it.


by Silverpike
how could railway linking with nepal undermine china's defence? nepal army invade? the best defensive stratagem is to be offensive

by Aerodriver
How much of a strategic asset is a Railway???? They are easy to hit from the air or using special forces on the ground. Any benefit would be short lived in a future war between China and India

OK. The significance of a railway is not the metal rails (they are almost insignificant) but (particularly in rough and mountainous terrain) it is all the groundworks; tunnels, embankments, ridges and bridges etc, that make the laying of rails possible, that really matters. here you have built an effective line of communication, where no such line existed before or would be possible to construct in a hostile environment.

Whether it is difficult to use or maintain or not, every General worth his fried egg, would be determined to control and use such a communication.

In terms of potentially undermining China defences, (and going back On Topic:eek: ) Connecting a line to a unstable country like Nepal, is risky as you do not know; by the very nature of Instability, who will be controlling the country in the near future.

If, for the sake of example, China had built in the late 90's, a Railway from Kashi to Kabul, perhaps you would have a better sense of what I am getting at.
 

silverpike

New Member
Aerodriver said:
The railroad was not built because of the strength of Tibet’s economy, it was built to strengthen it, just as building the railroads to the west of America opened up the west coast and enabled it to develop. It is almost impossible to stop Special Forces attacks on a railroad of that size. If China did position enough troops to stop attacks along the whole railway it would not have enough to fight the war. It takes only a team of two men to sneak in and blow up the track, yes it would be repaired but it is quicker to blow something up than fix it- look at the use of units such as the SAS in Sadam’s back yard during gulf war one.
The French rail network was crippled by a combination of French resistance fighters and allied aircraft, thus denying it to the Germans and they had to rely on the road system. My point is that that railroad is not going to be able to supply an army fighting India, because there are not enough tracks and it would always be targeted. A rail track that long would be a prime target for the Indians.
And if it really is out of range of Indian aircraft then it does not reach the border region and it is less useful because where do the supplies go from the end point.
I did not say the AA units or PLAAF have disbanded, but it is impossible to cover such a wide area completely, the AA units might cover stations but what about open country?
There is also on old saying in air warfare- the bombers will always get through, yes some will get shot down, but some will get through.
I do not know where you live in China but if you travel to the areas you describe you will see large bill boards with the railways and trains pictured (and lovely looking trains they are) and messages saying they have been built to improve to economy.
As for you comment about walk......I have never mentioned the road network, I have only talked about the railway.
Anyway we have drifted way of the topic of Nepal. Maybe we should start a new post- as it seems that it is an interesting debate.

ever been to tibet? if not, i have to tell, it is quite impossible for tibet to really develop economy, harsh natural condition, lack of population, langugage and culture issue, which makes tibet unlikely to be a industrial region in furture.

about the rail-way protection, china has two regiments of j-10 fighters in sichun to guard the region, plus AA missilies deploy in tibet. last yr i think, PLAAF just sucessfully tested SU-27's performance in tibet, there might be su-27 deploy in tibet in the furture.

PLA's size is the largest in the world, it wounldn't be a big problem to send some PAP to guard the rail. plus, i do not belive indian speical force would be able to reach the railway, it's simply too far away.

after Rail reach lahsa, there are road that led to border from lahsa. since by rail, the pla already send the supply to the pleatu, the rest transportion on the pleatu is easy.
 

Aerodriver

New Member
Silverspike, you live in China, read the official government reports concerning Tibet. They are trying to develop it economically, they are lots of reports about how this has increased how that figure has increase, how people are earning more. Official reports. It is not just heavy industry that develops an economy, but service industries and tourism also.
It is impossible (please think about what your suggesting, it’s not like guarding a city) to guard such a long structure from attack, think about how many troops in would take. If the Germans could not do it in France and they had more men under arms then how could China do it in such an inhospitable area? You would not need some troops (as you say) but probably hundreds of thousands to secure such a large area- troops that would be needed else where. Special forces could move with ease in that terrain, look at the south of Afghanistan and the Taliban, and I am sure the Nato forces there have better surveillance equipment in use than China would have available to police a railroad if it was a war with India.
What about the air attacks are you saying the Chinese Air Force is so good and the Indian so bad that some attacks against a tunnel or bridge would not get through? Thereby shutting the railroad for a short while, but then there are more attacks.
As for the distance the special forces would have to travel, they would not get there by foot and if a future conflict looked likely they would already be operating there gathering information about Chinese troop movements before the shooting started.
Anyway it might be better if we just agree to differ, you have you point of view, I have mine and I don’t think either of us is going to change it.
Yes I’ve been to Tibet; I thought by talking about the Bill Boards you might have understood that.
 

vincelee

Junior Member
to be quite honest, you two are neglecting the most important aspect; you don't need to defend it if you pre-empt. Same story in 62, same story now. The rail road gives you the capability to quickly gather resources at a convenient resource point while diplomatic works delay enemy reaction. Then you launch the attack. And if we assume something following the WarZone doctrine, by the time any attack on the railroad proper would bear fruit, the war is already over.
 
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