Chinas best dynastic military?

T-U-P said:

i chose the Ming because it had the largest navy in the history of china. also there was an extensive use and development of firearms during that time in china, Qing just abandoned the firearms that Ming made and went back to the trusty swords.

and also my last name is Zhu, if anyone have noticed.

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The Qing certainly did not abandon fire arms!! They just did not advance it further than the match lock.

The Qing certainly did not abandon fire arms!! They just did not advance it further than the match lock.

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They did abandon. The Qing lost to the Europeans in the opium war cuz all Qing troops uses are old cannons and swords. The Europeans had muskets.

And another word. Europeans are getting advantage, they got fire arms, they got 8 allies, Qing China was poor, not enough food for the soldiers, and some Qing soldiers smoked opium, made em weak. British that time are Evil cuz they sell opium in China.

Liberator said:

They did abandon. The Qing lost to the Europeans in the opium war cuz all Qing troops uses are old cannons and swords. The Europeans had muskets.

And another word. Europeans are getting advantage, they got fire arms, they got 8 allies, Qing China was poor, not enough food for the soldiers, and some Qing soldiers smoked opium, made em weak. British that time are Evil cuz they sell opium in China.

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Interestingly, Japan was similar to Ming/Qing China initially but they quickly adopted fire arms and established western-style army, directly trained by Americans/Europeans. I was watching "The Last Samurai" last night and I was amazed the ability of Japanese to accpet knowledge and technology from the west. The transition was very painful and bloody, and the old tradition (the Samurais) did not give up easily. By the 19th century Japan was almsot as strong as other Western powers.

Liberator said:

They did abandon. The Qing lost to the Europeans in the opium war cuz all Qing troops uses are old cannons and swords. The Europeans had muskets.

And another word. Europeans are getting advantage, they got fire arms, they got 8 allies, Qing China was poor, not enough food for the soldiers, and some Qing soldiers smoked opium, made em weak. British that time are Evil cuz they sell opium in China.

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You are wrong.

The Qing never improved on the cannons and match lock that it used to subjugate the west. In fact it was a combination of bad tactics, obsolete equipment, and bad policy that lead to defeat in the Opium wars.

First, the cannons and guns used were the same type used during the reign of Qian Long. Match lock and flint lock guns were no match for percussion cap rifles of the British. Furthermore, their forts and cannons were set up without regard to fields of fire.

Second, the Qing militia were an undiscipline mob and could not even form a proper firing line. They have never seen the type of discipline and firepower that the british push on them.

Third, the Qing dynasty was so paranoid of rebellion that they made the militia fight the british, not its 8 Banner armies that were used so effectively by Qian Long and Kanxi.

Could China win the Opium war, no. Could they stalemate the British definately.

Interestingly, Japan was similar to Ming/Qing China initially but they quickly adopted fire arms and established western-style army, directly trained by Americans/Europeans. I was watching "The Last Samurai" last night and I was amazed the ability of Japanese to accpet knowledge and technology from the west. The transition was very painful and bloody, and the old tradition (the Samurais) did not give up easily. By the 19th century Japan was almsot as strong as other Western powers.

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Remember. the Qing troops did not get enough food, therefore they are slow, weak, fragile on the battlefield. Most of the money from the goverment had been stolen by lots of bad goverment officials's pockets.

The opium war happend after KanXi died, and that time QING is soooo corrupt. The goverment cannot even afford a cannon in every city. Most money had been inflated by bad goverment officials, and the emperor is not doing any thing about it. All the emperor asks is IS CHINA THE BEST and has LOTS LOTS OF FOOD AND WEAPONS? ANd then bad officials say YUP. Then the emperor goes to sleep or get some luxiry.

If the STUPID QIng emperor at late Qing cared about the country, then China would be as strong as the Europeans...
The Qing emperors in late Qing did nothing but eat, laugh, play.

Are u sure THE LAST SAMURAI is not a propagonda film? Maybe the director loved Japan so much that they made the film. At that time, the Japs feared so much that the US will go and invade Japan.

Liberator said:

The opium war happend after KanXi died, and that time QING is soooo corrupt. The goverment cannot even afford a cannon in every city. Most money had been inflated by bad goverment officials, and the emperor is not doing any thing about it. All the emperor asks is IS CHINA THE BEST and has LOTS LOTS OF FOOD AND WEAPONS? ANd then bad officials say YUP. Then the emperor goes to sleep or get some luxiry.

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Kanxi died in 1722, opium war in 1840. It took Qingless 120 years to go from peak its to decline.

The Banner armies at this time too was very inept. They were relegated to garrison duties and have not seen actual combat since Qianlong's days.

Liberator said:

If the STUPID QIng emperor at late Qing cared about the country, then China would be as strong as the Europeans...
The Qing emperors in late Qing did nothing but eat, laugh, play.

Are u sure THE LAST SAMURAI is not a propagonda film? Maybe the director loved Japan so much that they made the film. At that time, the Japs feared so much that the US will go and invade Japan.

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Actually, it was the corrupt Empress Dowager Cixi that was preventing reforms. The emperors at this time were just her puppets. I remember reading that she used to money to build up the navy to buy her Jade Boat.

Qing was still viewed by the native HAN as an outsider.

Why was Han dynasty not included in poll? It was certainly stronger than Tang and Song.

In my opinion, it was the Ming. Why? Because only during the Ming dynasty did China have to capabilities to project power across the world. Even today, the PLAN does not have that degree of power projection. The Ming, if they had wanted to, could've landed navies in Europe and conquered all of Europe. Think of how history would be different then. The Ming were a superpower in every sense of that word. They led the world economically, militarily, scientifically and culturally. They had superior technology to any other people on Earth.

If I had a second choice, it would be the Qing. Under the Qing, the Chinese empire became larger than it ever was. In terms of landmass, the Qing was the greatest dynasty. They controlled all of the modern-day PRC, Taiwan, Mongolia, Outter Manchuria, Korea, Vietnam, Okinawa, and stretches of land in Central Asia and the Russian Far East. For the first hundred years, the Qing could also be classified a superpower, before the European nations surpassed it.

While the Ming was a oceanic power, the Qing was a continental one.