China won Turkey's missile defense competition

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Sources: Turkey Could Scrap Controversial Chinese Missile Purchase
Nov. 12, 2014 - 04:24PM | By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE |
World News
Europe
ANKARA, TURKEY — Turkey could scrap a controversial plan to buy missile defense systems from China that alarmed the United States and its Western allies, Turkish and European sources said Wednesday.

Key NATO member Turkey said in September last year it was entering negotiations with the China Precision Machinery Export-Import Corporation (CPMIEC) to acquire its first long-range anti-missile systems.

But the plan has deeply concerned the United States, which has already imposed sanctions on the Chinese company for supplying arms to Iran and Syria in defiance of an embargo.

“Several options are on the table, including a cancellation of the tender” that was won by the Chinese company, a Turkish government source familiar with the issue told AFP, asking not to be named.

Turkey chose CPMIEC in preference to offers from US firms Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, as well as Russia’s defense exporter Rosoboronexport and the French-Italian consortium Eurosam.

The contract is valued at €2.9 billion ($3.6 billion).

Aside from strategic concerns, Turkey’s allies in NATO also expressed worry about the compatibility of the Chinese systems with their own missile defense systems.

But Turkey had already admitted to difficulties in negotiations with the Chinese side, notably on the transfer of technology and issues of joint production.

Joint production is a crucial part of the planned deal as Turkey wants to build its own long-range air defense and anti-missile architecture to counter both enemy aircraft and missiles.

Turkey was supposed to have announced its final decision in summer but then invited the Chinese company’s rivals to present revised offers.

“We have received information that Turkey is preparing ultimately to launch a new tender to negotiate as a priority with European and American firms,” a European source in Ankara told AFP.

The Chinese embassy declined to comment.

Turkey had previously defended its decision to enter into talks with the Chinese company but said it is open to new bids should the negotiations fall through.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said in September that talks were continuing with the Chinese side but said that the French consortium was “second on the list” and had come up with a new offer.
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no_name

Colonel
I'm thinking, maybe, that once the deal goes through in order to integrate chinese system into existing network they will need to reveal something to the chinese and let them do some parts of it (just maybe ?). So NATO is going to get all bunched about some info given away before they can even learn something in return.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I'm thinking, maybe, that once the deal goes through in order to integrate chinese system into existing network they will need to reveal something to the chinese and let them do some parts of it (just maybe ?). So NATO is going to get all bunched about some info given away before they can even learn something in return.

The Turks could have gotten key information from both sides to do the integration themselves so neither side gets access to the other's confidential data.

Western opposition to the Chinese win is mainly down to geopolitics and money politics, with the technical issues little more than the pretext.

For the west to come out and say they object to the Chinese win because it might open up new strategic opportunities for Turkey to develop a more independent foreign policy and have a potential viable bargaining chip if not alternative to being endlessly strung along by the EU, and also that major western defense contractors are massive contributors to western politicians and employs a lot of people in key election battlegrounds would hardly be endearing to the Turks.

But at this point, no matter what the ultimate outcome, this deal should be considered a massive win and coup for Chinese arms manufactures.

The fact is the HQ9 export version was able to go toe to toe with the best on offer from both the west and Russia, and was judged to offer the best package.

The fact that the west play every card and called in every favour to strong arm the Turks into reconsidering takes nothing from the Chinese system and bid, and reflects really badly on those western systems on offer. I mean, if those systems were up to scratch, then the west would never have had to work so hard behind the scenes to get the Turks to overrule their own best judgement.
 

no_name

Colonel
The Turks could have gotten key information from both sides to do the integration themselves so neither side gets access to the other's confidential data.

Integration may not be that easy. Also, once data leaves your side confidentiality promise is only as good as the spoken word, and it also does not take into account intelligence gathering.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Actually the deal is still on until early 2015. Looks like the JSF F-35 deal that Turkey was a part of could be the deciding factor.

A final decision on Turkey’s disputed contract for the construction of the country’s first long-range air and anti-missile defense system will most likely come in early 2015, a senior defense official said in an interview with the prominent U.S.-based defense journal Defense News.

After Ankara selected a Chinese company in September 2013 to build the air defense architecture and came under heavy pressure from its Western allies for the decision, it also opened parallel negotiations this summer with a European contender in the multibillion dollar competition.

Contract negotiations with the Chinese manufacturer, China Precision Machinery Import Export Corp (CPMIEC), are also in progress but President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has said talks have also opened with Eurosam, the European contender in the program.

Following an assessment by Turkey’s top defense procurement agency, the Defense Industry Executive Committee selected CPMIEC as the best bidder, and Eurosam as the second. A U.S. partnership of Raytheon and Lockheed Martin came third in the bidding. CPMIEC offered a solution with a price tag of $3.44 billion.

“Since [the initial decision was made], our [experts] have engaged with contract negotiations with the first company. We have also engaged in a discussion with the second, the [runner-up]. So the final extension has been given [for] the end of the year. I believe that by the end of the year, a final assessment will be briefed to the [Defense Industry] Executive Committee, and the executive committee will give the final decision. That is the current plan,” Sedat Güldoğan, deputy undersecretary at the Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM), told Defense News in an interview.

The Defense Industry Executive Committee is chaired by Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu, and its other members are Defense Minister İsmet Yılmaz, Chief of General Staff Gen. Necdet Özel and the top defense procurement official, İsmail Demir, head of the SSM.

Commenting on another multibillion-dollar defense contract, Güldoğan said Turkey was not happy with the progress of the multinational Joint Strike Fighter program.

“The program itself has some difficulties price-wise, schedule-wise, development activities. Nine countries are together. [There are] three variants of the aircraft. We understand the difficulties, but these days we can’t say that the program is on track again. So I hope that in the near future, we will be having our aircraft and getting the capabilities to Turkey. These days we are concerned on the sustainment phase. We hope that there will be more and more [work for] Turkish [industry],” Güldoğan told Defense News.

Turkey, a partner of the JSF program that manufactures the new generation F-35 fighter jet, plans to buy 100 aircraft in the next 10 years, spending around $16 billion. Earlier this year, Ankara officially placed an order for the first two aircraft.

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Equation

Lieutenant General
Here's BBC article on it.
Turkey appears ready to buy a long-range Chinese surface-to-air missile system despite its incompatibility with Nato equipment.

Turkey is a key Nato member, and reports say US and French arms firms have been vying with China's CPMIEC.

The $3.4bn (£2.2bn) Chinese system would be used "without integrating with Nato systems", Turkish Defence Minister Ismet Yilmaz said.

Reports say Nato and the US have urged Turkey not to accept the Chinese offer.

According to a Turkish defence industry official, Ankara has not yet taken a final decision on its planned long-range missile defence system and contract talks with China are continuing, Reuters news agency reports.

He was speaking after the comments from Mr Yilmaz, who was responding to MPs' questions about Turkey's missile defence project.

Mr Yilmaz said Turkey had finished the evaluation process for the project.

The Russian news website Lenta.ru reports that Turkey plans to buy at least 12 Chinese HQ-9 missile batteries. The Chinese system is cheaper than rival systems, it reports.
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Well you know it's purely political pressure behind the delay. It has nothing to do with the technological aspects. You can probably gauge the direction this will go by the ever changing currents of political relations between Turkey and its allies. Last thing I saw in the news was some criticism towards Erdogan.
 
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