China-US-Taiwan Economic (Temp closed-pls read my last post)

Status
Not open for further replies.
LOL so how is this thread doing so far?
found now
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Senate Panel Votes to Allow Navy to Call at Taiwanese Ports

Proposal in armed services committee’s bill would roll back nearly 40 years of U.S. deference to China under “One China” policy
The Senate Armed Services Committee approved a major change in U.S. policy toward Taiwan as part of an annual defense-policy measure, voting to allow regular stops by U.S. naval vessels in a move that is likely to anger China.

In a bipartisan 21-6 vote, the panel approved re-establishing “regular ports of call by the U.S. Navy at Kaohsiung or any other suitable ports in Taiwan and permits U.S. Pacific Command to receive ports of call by Taiwan.”

If ratified by Congress, the new policy would roll back nearly 40 years of U.S. deference to China under the “One China” policy, in which Washington grants diplomatic recognition to China, but not to Taiwan.

The provision is part of the National Defense Authorization Act, an annual measure that sets U.S. national security policies and spending. This year, the Armed Services Committee recommended $640 billion in military spending for 2018.

According to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, which will now move to the full Senate for consideration, the new policy also directs the Defense Department to help Taiwan develop its “indigenous undersea-warfare capabilities, including vehicles and sea mines” and calls for strengthening strategic cooperation.

Officials with the Chinese embassy in Washington didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

The proposed policy change toward Taiwan is being driven by senators, and it is unclear how it is being viewed in the White House. U.S. President Donald Trump rattled U.S.-China relations soon after his election
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. He later reaffirmed the U.S.’s commitment to the policy in a phone call with China’s leader in February.

Sen. Tom Cotton (R., Ark), a trusted national security voice within the West Wing who is close with National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster, submitted an amendment adding the language concerning Taiwan to the defense appropriations bill. It was approved with the support of a handful of Democrats.

The House of Representatives, which would also have to pass the measure, shares hawkish views toward China.

The Trump administration has leaned on China to help contain an increasingly hostile North Korean regime. But President Donald Trump signaled last week that he may be running out of patience with China following the death of an American tourist after 17 months of detainment in Pyongyang.

“While I greatly appreciate the efforts of President Xi & China to help with North Korea, it has not worked out. At least I know China tried,” Mr. Trump tweeted last week.
 

delft

Brigadier
What i mean is that china doesnt have military options regarding the scenario described above. US forces are ready to go to taiwan at a moment´s notice, even before china fires a missile. And besides, wars cant be won with missiles. Even if china fires 2000 missiles (and assuming many wont be shot down/fail/miss target, something that is unlikely) it still wont conquer taiwan and it will start a war with US. As for the nuclear option, easy to say, suicide to do.



Ex: governments can make exceptions to planes and ships that trade with taiwan. When a country wants to trade with another country, theres always a way to do it, very especially if this country has US connivance (and even support).



US navy warships wouldnt need to be in chinese territorial waters to protect taiwan.
The US sending forces into Taiwan would be an act of war to which China would necessarily respond. It would be condemned by fourteen of the fifteen members of the UN Security Council. China would recall its ambassador from Washington. A USN ship already in a Taiwanese port might be legitimately destroyed but China might well limit itself to declaring a sea and air exclusion zone similar to but not the same as what US did during the 1962 Cuban missile crisis. That could make the presence of any merchant or naval vessel in that area illegal and possibly subject to action.
USN ships certainly would not be able to "protect" Taiwan.
 
"Beijing watched Trump threaten to abandon America’s adherence to the one-China policy if he did not get trade concessions — and then just fold the minute China’s president, Xi Jinping, said he would not take a phone call from Trump unless he reaffirmed the “One-China” policy." etc.:
Trump Is China’s Chump
JUNE 28, 2017
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
What i mean is that china doesnt have military options regarding the scenario described above. US forces are ready to go to taiwan at a moment´s notice, even before china fires a missile. And besides, wars cant be won with missiles. Even if china fires 2000 missiles (and assuming many wont be shot down/fail/miss target, something that is unlikely) it still wont conquer taiwan and it will start a war with US. As for the nuclear option, easy to say, suicide to do.

Are you selectively not reading things? You have been told by 2 members about China's military options. If you think US forces can touch down on Taiwan before Chinese missiles do, then you are very confused about the speed at which things move in the military and more confused about how US law works. Because America is a democracy, its decisions move through several layers of approval, all of which are in the media. There are so many warning signs and it will move through so slowly, China can probably invade Taiwan and set up a new government and have a new working economic model before the final approval to go forward is implemented in the US.

A 2,000 missile barrage against Taiwan will not be intercepted in any meaningful way. A missile fail/miss the target when the target is a 14,000 square mile island?? A few may fail, but they would be statistically insignificant. Don't say stupid stuff you don't understand. According to most US think tanks such as RAND, China can already either defeat the US or inflict unacceptable losses to the US in a conventional war over Taiwan. And each year, China's ability increases in relation.

Suicide to start a nuclear war? Yes, it is, but China won't go alone. You clearly lack understanding about the Taiwan issue, as you do military capability. You analyzed the situation as if it were 2 players vying over a pawn that is Taiwan, so if China is put into a difficult situation, it should forsake the pawn and work a different strategy. This is American thinking because to the US, Taiwan is just a pawn that can stand, fall, be sacrificed, etc... Lords never endanger themselves for pawns. To China, Taiwan represents the integrity of the nation. It is the final stand. The world can burn to nuclear ash but Taiwan cannot have independence.

If the US could not stop Filipino independence, if the US did nothing but throw curses and economic sanctions when Russia took Crimea and invaded Georgia, if the US does nothing but watch as China piles sand to make islands and put jets/missiles on them in the SCS on territory that US allies claim, then it is dream to think they would pick up arms to defend Taiwan in a potentially nuclear conflict. It is all talk... talk and money in arms sales.
 
Last edited:

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
US navy warships wouldnt need to be in chinese territorial waters to protect taiwan.
I thought I was responding to your notion "China can not do anything if US warship dock at ports in Taiwan (the congress proposed bill)". Am I right?

Taiwan's ports are Chinese territorial waters, aren't they? Let's be realistic, if you read the constitution of Republic of China (the official name of Taiwan), you will find that there is only one Chinese sovereignty (therefor one territory) which include both mainland China and Taiwan. By laws of both sides of the straight, port of Gaoxiong (Kaohsiung) is as Chinese as Shanghai. How could US warships not in Chinese waters if they dock there without Beijing's consent?

I think by this time we don't really need to argue what is China or not, the papers are crystal clear. What is left to argue is the physical forces to back these laws up, which China is not lack of. That not-lack-of is my center point, and the "
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
" I mentioned is the proof of it.
 

sanblvd

Junior Member
Registered Member
The arms sale will probably go ahead and China won't do anything about it, because this is not the first time this happened.

However US warships docking in Taiwan is simply not going to happen, this is way too provocative and like many said China are much more motivated than US in this.

This probably will not pass congress if it will I doubt Trump will sign it (or he might, because Trump is going to be Trump). But lets say in the event it all passes, and US decide to send warships to Taiwan, I expect Chinese navy will have a standoff with US ships near Taiwan, both side will probably face a stand off in the ocean, but there will be far more Chinese ships than US ships so US will probably back down, if not, then both side will play the ramming game and again, Chinese ships will outnumber US ships so again China will come out on top.

Whatever happens China will not fire the first shot, but if they are fired upon then they will probably fire back and gain the narrative as victims. And with the way Taiwan is already isolated internationally, and US influence at all time low, I highly doubt there will be anyone on US's side, that includes Japan and South Korea.

This is not a game that US can win, so if they try and loses, US would have lost far more credibility and bring in Chinese unification sooner.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Ex: governments can make exceptions to planes and ships that trade with taiwan. When a country wants to trade with another country, theres always a way to do it, very especially if this country has US connivance (and even support).
China does make exceptions to planes and ships for trade to Taiwan, but TRADE only, not warships. Foreign warships may be allowed to dock at Chinese ports, USN ships at Hong Kong for example, BUT only with Beijing's consent. I am sure not Taiwan.

As you insist calling Taiwan as a "country", besides self-convinced you have to convince all UN member states to call Taiwan a country (except the 20 out of 193 states who do recognize Taiwan as a country of its own). That is a mission impossible, 21-1=20 just happened weeks ago. After that bill is passed in US congress and senate, you will be seeing that number 20 goes further down.

The subject is sensitive to people from both mainland and Taiwan, so I suggest we avoid it, but you can not ignore the legal and diplomatic reality.
 
Last edited:

delft

Brigadier
Quite right, sanblvd. Also China wants all of Taiwan, not just the ruins of what was a reasonably prosperous country. So that is another reason China doesn't want war. But China is strong and determined. I have mentioned it before: some thirty years ago a Dutch shipyard sold two submarines to Taiwan and wanted to sell four more. Already then China was strong enough to convince the Dutch government not to allow it and the shipyard, the only submarine building shipyard in the Netherlands, didn't survive.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
What i mean is that china doesnt have military options regarding the scenario described above. US forces are ready to go to taiwan at a moment´s notice, even before china fires a missile. And besides, wars cant be won with missiles. Even if china fires 2000 missiles (and assuming many wont be shot down/fail/miss target, something that is unlikely) it still wont conquer taiwan and it will start a war with US. As for the nuclear option, easy to say, suicide to do.
I will take the time to answer the last point of this post of yours before the thread being shut down, a high probability about these kind of subject.

The incident back in 1949 is an example of China without a Navy bombing and crippling two warships of the then world second largest Navy. If China chose to do so back then, what makes you think China will not choose to (the options) bomb and cripple or even sank warships of the number one navy at her doorstep today when China does possess a formidable Ground, Air and Naval force just 200km across?

Go nuclear is not a preferable option to anyone, US included. It is easy to say but suicidal to do, EVERYONE included. I suggest we don't further walk down that path.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
What i mean is that china doesnt have military options regarding the scenario described above. US forces are ready to go to taiwan at a moment´s notice, even before china fires a missile. And besides, wars cant be won with missiles. Even if china fires 2000 missiles (and assuming many wont be shot down/fail/miss target, something that is unlikely) it still wont conquer taiwan and it will start a war with US. As for the nuclear option, easy to say, suicide to do.

Ex: governments can make exceptions to planes and ships that trade with taiwan. When a country wants to trade with another country, theres always a way to do it, very especially if this country has US connivance (and even support).
US navy warships wouldnt need to be in chinese territorial waters to protect taiwan.

you'd better stop here :mad::mad::mad:..... you are NEW in this respected forum ... READ the rules .. .or you will be banned very very soon :(:(:(
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top