China tests ASAT

Neutral Zone said:

then you could ambush the satellite at a time and place of your chosing, probably when it was out of touch with it's controllers and they might never know what had happened to it!

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The problem with that is you could only do it to one satellite at a time. Most countries that could be a military challenge to China have more than a few (or will do in the coming years). To be effective you would need to knock most/all of them out and then launch your military offensive before any replacements can be deployed.

Taking them out one-at-a-time would just alert that country to an imminent attack, maybe inducing them to lash out first.

FuManChu said:

This was a very bad move on China's part, because this time it cannot say it was responding to anyone else.

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Both the US and Russia HAD kinetic-based ASAT weapons since the early 1980s, and the US has been in continual development of laser-based ASAT weapons for the past few years as part of its ABM program, as another poster have pointed out in a New York Times article.

It's just not fair to say "China started it" in this case.

panzerkom said:

It's just not fair to say "China started it" in this case.

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No, but they have brought things to a head by making this test. It is one thing to produce a capability, but it is another to show it to the world - that's what the defence analyst the BBC interviewed said. People can tolerate others making things, but as soon as you start using them (even testing them) it can create all sorts of problems. If the US had done this, there would have been plenty of criticism from China and other countries.

I can only hope this will create some sort of movement towards a treaty, but it could so easily backfire in China's face even if that was the motivation.

FuManChu said:

No, but they have brought things to a head by making this test. It is one thing to produce a capability, but it is another to show it to the world - that's what the defence analyst the BBC interviewed said. People can tolerate others making things, but as soon as you start using them (even testing them) it can create all sorts of problems. If the US had done this, there would have been plenty of criticism from China and other countries.

I can only hope this will create some sort of movement towards a treaty, but it could so easily backfire in China's face even if that was the motivation.

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i don't know how you get the impression that china "show it to the world", if it's anybody, it should be the us military who showed it to the world, because the way i see it, they are doing test on their own, they didn't come out and make an announcement "hey, here we are, destroying one of our own weather satellite", if it indeed happened. and i would also like to know, if it were up to you, how do you suggest for china to produce a capability of such kind? "people can tolerate others making things, but as soon as you start using them (even testing them) it can create all sorts of problems." it's like saying "you can make a new vehicle, but you are not allow to drive it to see if it's drivable". making weapons without testing? what logic is that? it's n ot like they have a proven technology already, and are using them 2nd or 3rd time, although i see that coming anyway.
and for treaty and such, united states is the country that hasn't signed the international ban against militarization of space.

china is doing things on her backyard, hypocrites worried, oh that's something new.

Is this a low-cost low-tech ASAT system? How much did this cost? I know we have our own ASAT capability. But are our ASAT weapons too overpriced too overdeveloped gadgets that need a lot of development and testing? China might've just scrounged up some used components, shot them into space, and we call it an ASAT weapon. So the defense contractors get all excited, the think tanks get all excited, and now we have to spend many years and billions of dollars to develop expensive ASAT gadgets, and risk budget cuts every year by Congress. No one wins except the defense companies. Bulk supply of ASAT's on a budget is what we need.

The price should be relatively the same except when you account for currency exchange rates. Things are cheaper in China, but its not really cheaper. Its just that the Yuan is undervalued, which creates the illusion that things are that much easier to make.

But in any case. The system is a good move. Satellites were used to target military and civilian assets in Iraq and Afghanistan. They were natural fixtures to be used for military operations. It would also be natural to not want to see such devices to be used on any given country that cares about its national defense.

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10754750miles said:

i don't know how you get the impression that china "show it to the world"

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China did show their capability to the world - what the hell do you think they were doing? Making some pretty explosions to celebrate someone's birthday?

it should be the us military who showed it to the world, because the way i see it, they are doing test on their own

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That's complete nonsense - you don't show a capability by not holding a public test. Unless you have proof the Americans have blown up a satellite recently your point is irrelevant.

i would also like to know, if it were up to you, how do you suggest for china to produce a capability of such kind?

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How do countries test their nuclear weapons without making open tests? You're suggesting that North Korea had a right to test its nuclear weapons, despite the condemnation that followed - even from China.

I'm not a scientist or engineer, so I couldn't tell you how people develop weapons without making big messy stunts. But that doesn't mean the criticism of this test has no basis. If it was just the US, you might have a point - but it isn't just the US.

and for treaty and such, united states is the country that hasn't signed the international ban against militarization of space.

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There is no such thing as the "international ban against militarization of space". What specific agreement are you referring to? Besides, if China did not break such a thing by doing this, the fact the US hasn't signed up to it shouldn't matter.

china is doing things on her backyard

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Space isn't anyone's backyard, which is why it is also wrong for the Americans to want to try to control it.

Seems kind of redundant to say. But satellites are used for offensive purposes. Dozens if not more satellites cross over China every day. They give accounts to where military and civilian assets are located. And they also guide missiles and munitions to their desired targets when fired.

In times of peace, these satellites are generally viewed as a nusiance but nothing more, but in times of war, they are used to destroy national infrastructure and military assets as they were used in Iraq and Afghanistan. To suggest that China should not have countermeasures for such a system in place is moving into the realm of absurdity.

ok, china blow up her own weather satellite, the world doesn't know, only united states the almighty who has the right to peek at other people's privacy decide to announce it for china to the world, so we blame on china? what are your intention behind this?

so the americans hasn't recently shooting any satellites down, so china can not develop anything on the same category because of that? you haven't fought a war for 50 years, you are not allowed to have an army?

how can you tell if a missle is going to work if you don't fire it into the sky and try to hit the target, and you suggest conduct a underground explosion, that way nobody will know, when infact the technology is better than exploding some earth worm?

i didn't talk about nuclear test, i talked about missle, outer space, orbit, satellite, why did you say something about north korea and nuclear test?

"Towards the end of 2000, the United Nations General Assembly had a vote on a resolution called the “Prevention of Outer Space Arms Race.” It was adopted by a recorded vote of 163 in favor to none against, with 3 abstentions. The three that abstained were the Federated States of Micronesia, Israel and the United States of America." --united nation

so yea? maybe space isn't just one's backyard, but it's chinese's own satellite, did they blow up yours? why do you care?

you came out saying china had the wrong move, i gave you my reason to look at it in different perspective, make me a nationalists? why should i criticise the matter if it's true? for the technological advancement? for dragging a race between two countries? please enlighten me.

Well I think Utelore has made the most relevant comments so far and I would like to add a little context:

2007 is officially a PRC "Year of Resisting Taiwanese Independance" meaning that the DPP have to be actively discouraged from trying anything in the run up to the 2008 Presidential Elections.

I see the ASAT test specifically in that context, as a very large stick to discourage the seperatists agenda, doubtless to be followed up with an equally large carrot or two for the benefit of Cross Straits compatriots.

Bluntly, Tiawan has been told it can no longer count on effective US assistance even if the US wished to give it, as the US will no longer be able to guarantee the survivability of its essential orbital assets.

This is probably the Military "coup de grace" against the DPP that the KMT/CCP engagement starting 2004 was Politically.

The wider military message from China about its ability to defend its territory needs no further explaination.

Also some of you guys need to cool it, I am sure you all know who you are