China tests ASAT

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tphuang

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I know there was a previous thread on this, but I think this development warrants a new thread. Looks like China actually performed and destroyed a satellite using laser. Not revolutionary technology by world standard, but pretty revolutionary for Chinese.
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Chinese Test Anti-Satellite Weapon
By Craig Covault/Aviation Week & Space Technology
01/17/2007 07:45:59 PM

U. S. intelligence agencies believe China performed a successful anti-satellite (asat) weapons test at more than 500 mi. altitude Jan. 11 destroying an aging Chinese weather satellite target with a kinetic kill vehicle launched on board a ballistic missile.

The Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, the Defense Intelligence Agency, NASA and other government organizations have a full court press underway to obtain data on the alleged test, Aviation Week & Space Technology will report in its Jan. 22 issue.

If the test is verified it will signify a major new Chinese military capability.

Neither the Office of the U. S. Secretary of Defense nor Air Force Space Command would comment on the attack, which followed by several months the alleged illumination of a U. S. military spacecraft by a Chinese ground based laser.

China's growing military space capability is one major reason the Bush Administration last year formed the nation's first new National Space Policy in ten years, Aviation Week will report.

"The policy is designed to ensure that our space capabilities are protected in a time of increasing challenges and threats," says Robert G. Joseph, Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security at the U. S. State Dept. " This is imperative because space capabilities are vital to our national security and to our economic well being," Joseph said in an address on the new space policy at the National Press Club in Washington D. C.

Details emerging from space sources indicate that the Chinese Feng Yun 1C (FY-1C) polar orbit weather satellite launched in 1999 was attacked by an asat system launched from or near the Xichang Space Center.

The attack is believe to have occurred as the weather satellite flew at 530 mi. altitude 4 deg. west of Xichang located in Sichuan province. Xichang is a major Chinese space launch center.

Although intelligence agencies must complete confirmation of the test, the attack is believed to have occurred at about 5:28 p.m. EST Jan. 11. U. S. intelligence agencies had been expecting some sort of test that day, sources said.

U. S. Air Force Defense Support Program missile warning satellites in geosynchronous orbit would have detected the Xichang launch of the asat kill vehicle and U. S. Air Force Space Command monitored the FY-1C orbit both before and after the exercise.

The test, if it occurred as envisioned by intelligence source, could also have left considerable space debris in an orbit used by many different satellites.

USAF radar reports on the Chinese FY-1C spacecraft have been posted once or twice daily for years, but those reports jumped to about 4 times per day just before the alleged test.

The USAF radar reports then ceased Jan. 11, but then appeared for a day showing "signs of orbital distress". The reports were then halted again. The Air Force radars may well be busy cataloging many pieces of debris, sources said.

Although more of a "policy weapon" at this time, the test shows that the Chinese military can threaten the imaging reconnaissance satellites operated by the U. S., Japan, Russia, Israel and Europe.

The Republic of China also operates a small imaging spacecraft that can photograph objects as small as about 10 ft. in size, a capability good enough to count cruise missiles pointed at Taiwan from the Chinese mainland. The Taiwanese in the past have also leased capability on an Israeli reconnaissance satellite.
 

Scratch

Captain
:confused:
The report you posted sais the satallite was destroyed by a "kill vehicle launched onboard a ballistic missile", not by laser.
The only laser reference is that incidence were a US imaginarey sat was said to be blinded by a chinese ground-based laser.
Nonetheless, that is indeed a significant step forward in chinese militaty capabilites.
 

DarkEminence

New Member
Chinese Successful Anti-Satelite Test

Concerns over China's satellite-killer test

By Jim Wolf2 hours, 43 minutes ago

The United States, Australia and Canada have voiced concerns to China over the first known satellite-killing test in space in more than 20 years, the White House said on Thursday.

"The U.S. believes China's development and testing of such weapons is inconsistent with the spirit of cooperation that both countries aspire to in the civil space area," National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe said. "We and other countries have expressed our concern regarding this action to the Chinese."

Using a ground-based medium-range ballistic missile, the test knocked out an aging Chinese weather satellite about 537 miles above the earth on January 11 through "kinetic impact," or by slamming into it, Johndroe said.

Canada and Australia had joined in voicing concern, he said. Britain, South Korea and Japan were expected to follow suit, an administration official added.

The last U.S. anti-satellite test took place on September 13, 1985. Washington then halted such Cold War-era testing, concerned by debris that could harm civilian and military satellite operations on which the West increasingly relies for everything from pinpoint navigation to Internet access to automated teller machines.

According to David Wright of the Cambridge, Massachusetts-based Union of Concerned Scientists, the satellite pulverized by China could have broken into nearly 40,000 fragments from 1 cm to 10 cms or up to four inches, roughly half of which would stay in orbit for more than a decade.

On the day of the test, a U.S. defense official said the United States was unable to communicate with an experimental spy satellite launched last year by the Pentagon's National Reconnaissance Office. But there was no immediate indication that this was a result of the Chinese test.

SATELLITE-KILLING CAPABILITY

Aviation Week & Space Technology, the first to report the test, cited space sources as saying a Chinese Feng Yun 1C polar orbit weather satellite, launched in 1999, was destroyed by an antisatellite system launched from or near China's Xichang Space Center in Sichuan Province.

The capability demonstrated by China was no surprise to the Bush administration, which revised U.S. national space policy in October to assert a right to deny space access to anyone hostile to U.S. interests.

In a major speech about the policy last month, Robert Joseph, the State Department's point man for arms control and international security, said other nations and possibly terrorist groups were "acquiring capabilities to counter, attack and defeat U.S. space systems."

"No nation, no non-state actor, should be under the illusion that the United States will tolerate a denial of our right to the use of space for peaceful purposes," Joseph said on December 13.

The United States has been researching satellite-killers of its own, experimenting with lasers on the ground that could disable, disrupt and destroy spacecraft.

Marco Caceres, a space expert at the Teal Group, an aerospace consulting firm in Fairfax, Virginia, said China's test could bolster a host of costly military space programs, almost all of which are over budget and behind schedule.

"They are going to use this for as much as they can," he said, referring to Pentagon officials. Major corporate beneficiaries could be Lockheed Martin Corp., Boeing Co. and Northrop Grumman Corp., which build U.S. communications, surveillance and early-warning satellites, Caceres said.

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China Space Attack: Unstoppable

China has shown it can destroy a satellite in orbit. What could the U.S. do to stop Beijing, if it decided to attack an American orbiter next? Short answer: nothing.

It takes about 20 minutes to fire a ballistic missile into space, and have its "kill vehicle" strike a satellite at hypersonic speed -- over 15,000 miles per hour -- in low-earth orbit. That's far too quick for anything in the American arsenal to respond, in time. There's "no possibility of shielding" a relatively-fragile satellite against such a strike. "And it is impractical [for a satellite] to carry enough fuel to maneuver away even if you had specific and timely warning of an attack," Center for Defense Information analyst Theresea Hitchens notes.

The American military today counts on its satellites to relay orders, guide troops across battlefields, and spy on enemy hideouts. The U.S. Air Force's primer for war in space -- "Doctrine Document 2-2.1: Counterspace Operations" -- lists a number of measures that can be taken to protect American assets in orbit, including "deploying satellites into various orbital altitudes and planes" and "employing frequency-hopping techniques to complicate jamming." But those tactics are used to preserve the U.S. satellite constellation as a whole. None of them could save a single American orbiter against a direct attack. "Physical hardening of structures mitigates the impact of kinetic effects, but is generally more applicable to ground-based facilities than to space-based systems due to launch-weight considerations," the Air Force document notes. "Maneuver[ing] is limited by on-board fuel constraints, orbital mechanics, and advanced warning of an impending attack. Furthermore, repositioning satellites generally degrades or interrupts their mission."

With today's conventional defenses proving so impotent, expect a new push within the U.S. military for more exotic countermeasures. The Airborne Laser is a modified 747 that's being designed to blast missiles out of the sky, as soon as they leave they launch pad; the jet's first flight test in expected in 2009, after years and years of delays. The Kinetic Energy Interceptor is a long-range, non-explosive missile, meant for the same task. But the weapon "exists mostly on paper, and couldn't be operational before 2014," Defense Tech's David Axe noted recently.

The U.S. could also try to destroy an anti-satellite missile, before it took off. Over the last several years, momentum has been building in the Pentagon for the ability to conduct "Prompt Global Strikes," hitting anywhere on Earth, in an hour or less. But near-term PGS plans -- using modified Trident ballistic missiles -- have been put on hold, for fears that such an attack could start World War III, in the process. Destroying a satellite is as clear an act of war as there can be, however. Perhaps those Trident attacks will now be seen as worth the risk.

In the meantime, GlobalSecurity.org director John Pike figures the Chinese will continue to test their satellite-killing weapons. It takes a dozen or more trials before a strategic weapon like this is deemed reliable enough to be considered operational. "So expect one or two more tests like this every year, for a long time," he says.

The Chinese test, now confirmed by the National Security Council, would be the first successful anti-satellite weapons trial since 1985, when the United States used an F-15 and a kill vehicle to destroy the Solwind research satellite. And that trial was dangerous -- not just for its target, but for nearly everything orbiting in space, Hitchens notes. Even small pieces of space debris can be lethal to spacecraft. The '85 test "resulted in more than 250 pieces of debris, the last of which deorbited in 2002."

The Chinese trial could "lead to nearly 800 debris fragments of size 10 cm or larger, nearly 40,000 debris fragments with size between 1 and 10 cm, and roughly 2 million fragments of size 1 mm or larger," the Union of Concerned Scientists' David Wright notes on the Arms Control Wonk blog. "Roughly half of the debris fragments with size 1 cm or larger would stay in orbit for more than a decade."

"This raises an interesting public policy question because we are so much more dependent on commercial and military satellites that the ASAT [anti-satellite] options available to us are much more complicated than those available to the Chinese," adds Jeffrey Lewis. "This is a race that favors them, unfortunately."

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Interesting, eh? China has the kinetic kill vehicle, but not the guidance system. Almost an anti-ballistic missile system to I might add.

Note: I do not know whether or not this topic has been posted yet, or whether or not there is a specific space forum discussion.
 

panzerkom

Junior Member
Re: Chinese Successful Anti-Satelite Test

Couple points I would like to make:

1. If the U.S. can "assert a right to deny space access to anyone hostile to U.S. interests," why can't other countries assert their own right to deny space access to anyone hostile to their interests? As for Joseph's comment, one can hardly describe satellites controlled by the Pentagon or CIA, and used to guide missiles and bombs as having "peaceful purposes."

2. While intercepting satellites is an important step toward intercepting ICBMs, they aren't the same, since satellites have a more predictable trajectory. The U.S. had ASAT capability in the 80s, but 20-some-odd years later, its ABM capability is still not completed yet. So China is probably still at least a decade if not longer away from ABM capability.
 
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Deleted member 675

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Re: Chinese Successful Anti-Satelite Test

If the U.S. can "assert a right to deny space access to anyone hostile to U.S. interests," why can't other countries assert their own right to deny space access to anyone hostile to their interests?

They can, but I'm not sure how much effort the US was pouring into any such anti-satellite project. Now you can be sure they will push things forward themselves.

Chances are there's going to be a space-arms race from here onwards - more than has been seen before.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Re: Chinese Successful Anti-Satelite Test

They can, but I'm not sure how much effort the US was pouring into any such anti-satellite project. Now you can be sure they will push things forward themselves.

Chances are there's going to be a space-arms race from here onwards - more than has been seen before.

We still have a a few ASAT missles lying around. There's not many, and they have been out of production for years. But that production could start up quickly again.

The arms race has already begun. This story is evidence of that.

I'm pretty certain that Prompt Global Strikes (or whatever they're calling that God-awful WWIII starting weapons system) is not the answer to ASAT weapons. In order to be effect, you need to know that the attack is coming in advance. That alone is enough to make it completely worthless in an ASAT situation.

Unfortunately, the only answer to ASAT weapons is the true militarization of space. That means basing defensive weaponry in space, in the form of armed satillites, space stations or even spacecraft in order to destroy the Kill Vehicles. That is a road no one should want to go down (but I'm certain that people in multiple countries do) because it not only makes the concept of MAD invalid but it also opens space to all sorts of weaponry. An excellent vision of this possible (probable) future can be found in our own Jeff Head's Dragon's Fury series of books. :D
 

peterc

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Chinese destroy sattelite with missle

I don't how difficult it is to do this, but the west is expressing concerns. Can anyone tell me what would it take (how difficult) to track a satellite in space and destroy it? Is this a new missle type?

TIA

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dioditto

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Re: Chinese Successful Anti-Satelite Test

I think it is fair to say, Chinese have the right to develop ASAT weapon.


It is very unfair and hypocritical to say, "It is United States' inalieanable right to deny adversaries access to space for hostile purposes."


"Since the mid-1980s, the United States has had the ability to take down satellites"


This is just another shining example of the hypocrisy of "do what I say but don't do what I do" mindset.


“The United States believes China's development and testing of such weapons is inconsistent with the spirit of cooperation that both countries aspire to in the civil space area.”


And since when did United States actually try to "cooperate" with China? China is blocked from participating in the International Space Station or any other significant space explorations with the west, not to mention many other technologies.

If anything, China should accelerate the space research, so, it can atleast be on parity, with US. And I will bet you a million dollars, the the day Chinese surpass the American in space tech, the american will start warming up to chinese for "space cooperation".


National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe said. “We and other countries have expressed our concern to the Chinese.”


"Expressed our concern"... old BUSHISM for "we are making threats to CHINA now" over what they do in THEIR air space.

As for filing a diplomatic protest over the incident, I have never heard of US filing such protest when Russians are testing theirs, or US testing their own.
 
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Macbeth

New Member
Re: Chinese Successful Anti-Satelite Test

The US spends 4 percent of its GDP on its military every year while the international average is 2.5. This doesnt take into account of deployment costs due to war, nuclear weapons maintenance ect. Its not as if US annual spending was any different than how much it spent during the cold war years in the 1980s if we dont take in consideration of war costs. Saying that the US is going to increase military spending to arms race levels when it already is, is not saying much.
 

DarkEminence

New Member
Re: Chinese Successful Anti-Satelite Test

They can, but I'm not sure how much effort the US was pouring into any such anti-satellite project. Now you can be sure they will push things forward themselves.

Actually, the United States pushed forward anti-sat technology for a long time, probably starting since Starfish (
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.
 
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