China-Russian Relation as an example for New Model of Great Power Relations

shen

Senior Member
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When watching this interview about Chinese Russian relation, I'm struck that the Chinese Russian cooperation is a good example of how great powers can cooperate despite some inherent conflict of interests. At same time while the two great powers mutually benefit, the smaller countries of Central Asia also benefit from the stable relationship and the economic developments that relationship makes possible.

Some will want to simplify the Russian Chinese relation as a marriage of convenience in reaction to pressure from the West. But SCO was formed in 2001, when Russian still enjoyed good relationship with the West and China also had better relationship with the US than it does today. SCO is expanding, bring in new countries like India and Pakistan, but at the same time without making other countries feel threatened, like the NATO expansion is doing to Russia. India which could be threatened by the expansion of Chinese influence in Central Asia and work to undermine it, is brought in a partner.

What lessons can we draw from the Sino-Russian relationship that can be applied to Chinese-US relations and Russian-US relations? What made it possible for China and Russia to smooth over the differences and cooperate while the same is not happening with the US?
 
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JayBird

Junior Member
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When watching this interview about Chinese Russian relation, I'm struck that the Chinese Russian cooperation is a good example of how great powers can cooperate despite some inherent conflict of interests. At same time while the two great powers mutually benefit, the smaller countries of Central Asia also benefit from the stable relationship and the economic developments that relationship makes possible.

Some will want to simplify the Russian Chinese relation as a marriage of convenience in reaction to pressure from the West. But SCO was formed in 2001, when Russian still enjoyed good relationship with the West and China also had better relationship with the US than it does today. SCO is expanding, bring in new countries like India and Pakistan, but at the same time without making other countries feel threatened, like the NATO expansion is doing to Russia. India which could be threatened by the expansion of Chinese influence in Central Asia and work to undermine it, is brought in a partner.

What lessons can we draw from the Sino-Russian relationship that can be applied to Chinese-US relations and Russian-US relations? What made it possible for China and Russia to smooth over the differences and cooperate while the same is not happening with the US?

Well... China and Russia are the great powers of the world, but US is the only superpower left after the fall of the Soviet Union and likes to keep it that way as long as possible.

Mean while China and Russia are actively trying to change the current unipolar system with the United States as the lone dominate country to a bipolar system with multiple great powers. It's much easier to cooperate when you shared this same strategic interest right now with China and Russia.

While the US looking at China and Russia as a threat to her global dominance. That's the inherent core conflicts between the US, China and Russia that's not going to change for a while as there is not enough trust between these countries.
 

shen

Senior Member
Well... China and Russia are the great powers of the world, but US is the only superpower left after the fall of the Soviet Union and likes to keep it that way as long as possible.

Mean while China and Russia are actively trying to change the current unipolar system with the United States as the lone dominate country to a bipolar system with multiple great powers. It's much easier to cooperate when you shared this same strategic interest right now with China and Russia.

While the US looking at China and Russia as a threat to her global dominance. That's the inherent core conflicts between the US, China and Russia that's not going to change for a while as there is not enough trust between these countries.

You've probably read about the term Thucydides Trap mentioned a lot in Western press in recent years. According to Thucydides Trap, a rising power like China will inevitably come into conflict with an established power such as the United States. In Central Asia, Russia is undoubtedly the established power and China is rising power. But instead of falling into Thucydides Trap, Russia and China have found ways to mitigate the conflict of interests and accommodate each others aspiration. China and the US would have work in similar ways to avoid falling into Thucydides Trap, which would not just a disaster for the two countries but also for the entire world. reminds me of the Chinese proverb 鹬蚌相争,渔翁得利. When clam and stork fights, the fisherman benefits. So who is going to be the fisherman?
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
The US believes it has a higher-calling than what China or Russia are concerned about. Let's also not forget the saying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." That's sort of is default when both Ukraine and the pivot to Asia are seen as US campaigns to undermine the respective countries. I don't know where the idea that it was believed that Russia would naturally side with the US against China as mentioned in the video. The last time I heard something similar where the West and Russia should be natural partners and not in conflict with one another was back during the Cold War when I was a kid and I watched on TV Ku Klux Klan leader Tom Metzger say the same thing.
 

shen

Senior Member
Another example of great powers cooperation. Cyber security is a concern for all nations and is certainly an increasingly point of friction in Sino-US relation. This agreement between Russia and China might not serve as a framework for a Sino-US agreement, but it does show that negotiation can lead to positive results.

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"Each Party has an equal right to the protection of the information resources of their state against misuse and unsanctioned interference, including computer attacks against them. Each Party shall not exercise such actions with respect to the other Party and shall assist the other Party in the realization of said right."
 

delft

Brigadier
Another example of great powers cooperation. Cyber security is a concern for all nations and is certainly an increasingly point of friction in Sino-US relation. This agreement between Russia and China might not serve as a framework for a Sino-US agreement, but it does show that negotiation can lead to positive results.

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"Each Party has an equal right to the protection of the information resources of their state against misuse and unsanctioned interference, including computer attacks against them. Each Party shall not exercise such actions with respect to the other Party and shall assist the other Party in the realization of said right."
From the Diplomat article:
Previously, particularly China has avoided the usage of language that could implicate the right to self-defense, which it interprets as legitimizing the use of offensive cyber activity in conflict.
US officials are apt to describe self-defence as the right to "retaliate" against some party accused of a cyber attack rather than a policy of replacing Microsoft systems by systems designed to be secure like OpenBSD, training people to adequately maintain systems, and not to leave out defences as did Ashley Madison.
 
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