China plans to build military base in US Soil
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Raptoreyes
New Member
The next pertinent questions to ask are the following.
1- How many people does the PRC allow outside the country each year and under what conditions is such permission typically granted? (In the context of this sentence person or people is defined as anybody who is NOT a government official or in any way on the direct or indirect pay a role of the governmental authorities China.)
2- Are their any segments of the population that are allowed foreign travel as they please, without the express permission of the government?
3- What what percentage of the citizens have de jure ( not de facto enforcement constraints) rights to travel as they please without official papers in their country?
The answers to the three above questions, would give us a great deal of insight as to any positive changes (or lack of them) the government is making in regards becoming an open society. The answers would give us some extra clues as to how those with governmental power in China intend to use their ties to the outside world and any possible future plans they may have, of both the domestic and foreign policy nature.
1- How many people does the PRC allow outside the country each year and under what conditions is such permission typically granted? (In the context of this sentence person or people is defined as anybody who is NOT a government official or in any way on the direct or indirect pay a role of the governmental authorities China.)
2- Are their any segments of the population that are allowed foreign travel as they please, without the express permission of the government?
3- What what percentage of the citizens have de jure ( not de facto enforcement constraints) rights to travel as they please without official papers in their country?
The answers to the three above questions, would give us a great deal of insight as to any positive changes (or lack of them) the government is making in regards becoming an open society. The answers would give us some extra clues as to how those with governmental power in China intend to use their ties to the outside world and any possible future plans they may have, of both the domestic and foreign policy nature.
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Wow raptor are you out of date!!!
In the last two years alone, over 100 Million Chinese have taken overseas holidays each year. Most of which have been in regional destinations in the Asia Pacific, but also have included Europe and the USA. The criteria? ability to pay. China's new middle class are proving indistinguishable to the Middle Classes globally in terms of the aspirations and preferences.
Many professional workers for Big Multinationals are also able to work abroad for extended periods if required by their employers.
I do believe that exit visa's are required, but this is just as much at the behest of foreign govts worried about Chinese economic migration as it is a concern of the PRC.
Cant answer the third question, but as economic development takes hold, these measures are being relaxed in many provinces. Obviously many people have been able to obtain travel permission to go from the Interior to the Coastal Provinces for work. Much of this was to prevent mass internal migration which would otherwise have swamped the resources of the Coastal provinces. Now we are seeing greater development in the Interior, the need for such restrictions are lessened and indeed becoming obstacles to desired levels of movement and so are progressively being removed.
In the last two years alone, over 100 Million Chinese have taken overseas holidays each year. Most of which have been in regional destinations in the Asia Pacific, but also have included Europe and the USA. The criteria? ability to pay. China's new middle class are proving indistinguishable to the Middle Classes globally in terms of the aspirations and preferences.
Many professional workers for Big Multinationals are also able to work abroad for extended periods if required by their employers.
I do believe that exit visa's are required, but this is just as much at the behest of foreign govts worried about Chinese economic migration as it is a concern of the PRC.
Cant answer the third question, but as economic development takes hold, these measures are being relaxed in many provinces. Obviously many people have been able to obtain travel permission to go from the Interior to the Coastal Provinces for work. Much of this was to prevent mass internal migration which would otherwise have swamped the resources of the Coastal provinces. Now we are seeing greater development in the Interior, the need for such restrictions are lessened and indeed becoming obstacles to desired levels of movement and so are progressively being removed.
I would like to add to comrade Sampan Viking's sources. While (as you know) I agree with his conclusion that China is moving inexorably towards openess, there must be I think several qualifiers.
1) The number of tourist are number of outbound departures, meaning there may be repeats.
2) That said, given the level of income in China (Per capita last year, is around 2000 dollars) and the high income disparity (46.9 by the Gini index), the number of people with the disposable income to travel overseas is not high to begin with. China is not like America, where personal mobility is easily afforded by vast number of cars, and easy overseas travel destinations are abound, and certainly not like Europe's integration. Given this it is I think reasonable to state that taken into account restriction of her wealth, a substantial segment of the Chinese population can and do travel overseas.
3) To my knowledge, travel restriction in China is quite relaxed these days. I have personally known many Chinese students who travel back and forth overseas quite a good deal. There are notable exceptions: Political prisoners - but that is hardly unexpected. Other notable exceptions includes illegal emigration, such as you are no doubt aware for example case of illegal Chinese immigrants and Tibetans crossing the border to India, but by and large (Tibetan exception) these cases are motivated by the destination country's immigration policies and are economic in nature. You only need to see how unpoliticized these new communities are - the most vocal overseas Chinese communities are usually the older ones or the ones from Hong Kong. Mainland Chinese communities tend to be unvocal about Chinese affairs, not exactly hotbeds for dissidence (for more evidence of this, note how Chinese democratic activists as for example from 1989 movement have signally failed to unite or gain following since then).
4) De jure is meaningless, a reading of Chinese constitution seems to suggest no restriction on such rights. Laws also read quite differently from reality on a number of things. In this case I think de-facto reality case is more helpful
5) A figure that bears repeating is, number of foreigners in China, as repeated, over one MILLION Taiwanese live and work in China, along with substantial others. In 2004 alone, 110 million inbound tourists visited China. Quite obviously they are mostly tourists, but again, this bears witness to new opening of China
6) Contrast this, please with China of late '70s. Late '70s after Cultural Revolution was when Chinese students first allowed to travel aboard. Back then, 'hukou' system was still enforced, meaning internal travel of China is restricted. Contrast this with today, where 'hukou' system is completely dead, which is why during Spring New Year of China, HUNDREDS of millions travel around to visit their ancestral homes.
Conclusion being drawn, is that China has moved very much towards openess and greater contact with the rest of the world since 1976. Perhaps much is left to be desired, that goes without saying, but it is also unfair to deny her progress, or to imagine her as she was a mere 25 years ago.
...and that's enough rambling for one night.
ADDENUM:
Source of my statistics:
Note that some of the data is conflicting, and is partially explained, because some kind day trips, others don't. Some count Hong Kong and Macau, others don't.
But there are solidly over 30 million travels over seas in 2004-2005 time frame per year.
Source of my statistics:
Note that some of the data is conflicting, and is partially explained, because some kind day trips, others don't. Some count Hong Kong and Macau, others don't.
But there are solidly over 30 million travels over seas in 2004-2005 time frame per year.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
In reading and watching that video, all I can say is paranoia and propaganda isn't a monopoly of the communists. This is sort of like when I hear people keep bringing up the practice of binding feet in China. I'd tell them that practice was outlawed when the communist took over. Then they'd shrug that fact off because it's still "recent" history to them. And I'd retort lynching "colored" people was an even more recent event.
Raptoreyes said:
==Wow, you are like a time capsule, perfectly preserving the ideas of another era...
And I assume it is also news to you that Mao Zedong is dead?
==Why don't you ask for a tour at your local construction site? Have you thought that dangerous workplaces like a commercial dock might not be suitable for public tours?
Serious question, what compels you to discard reality and common sense to make these political statements? Have you actually met anyone from mainland China?
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
ff::this is a joke post, not to be taken in any sense of seriousness::Recent events have lead me to a Idea concerning the concept of a Chinese military base on American soil.
First If they want one. I have the perfect Location. Santa Barbra, California
for a mere $24,525,906.61 the PLA can own over 2,800 acres of American Pacific real estate in a most lovely neighborhood. complete with art works , a zoo a farris wheel and roller coaster that can be used to build guard posts it even has a cool sounding military code name "The Neverland Ranch":roll: