China needs to be a responsible power, that's to prevent western led regime change under SCO

Discussion in 'Strategic Defense' started by tidalwave, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    Nonintervention itself is kind of irresponsible, China needs to rid of that.

    I think you are confused with China being responsible as to what the West expect to it to act to preserve the Western order of thing.
     
  2. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    For crying loud , China will be hurting itself if it doesn't do anything to collect the $20 billion Venezuela government still owning to China.
    The new government which is sponsored by US could come in and could eat it's words and make China lose that $20 billion in loan.

    Nonintervention will cost China dearly.

    Once China send troops, Russia and Iran will also send troops. And central Asia may also too. All under SCO. China won't acting by itself.

    Sending troops doesn't mean going to fight with US but rather to help stabilize the country against possible uprisings.
     
    #12 tidalwave, Feb 4, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  3. Viktor Jav
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    Viktor Jav Junior Member
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    Nope, the distinction here is quit clear. If China acts to preserve what is clearly in its own interests above that of the Venezuelan people which is to keep an embattled president whose popularity is in dispute in total disregard of proper procedures and norms it will be no better than what you claim the West is doing.
    The most arrogant and hubristic thinking that China could ever do is to think that it knows better than what the local populace of another nation does.
     
    #13 Viktor Jav, Feb 4, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  4. Viktor Jav
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    Viktor Jav Junior Member
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    So in that sentence you admit yourself why you did want China to intervene, not because of "responsibility" or "upholding international norms" or any of the high and mighty things you did image it to be. It is in the end, plain and simple all about greed and money. Yeah that is so "morally superior" to what you claim the US will do ?
    The idea that the rest of SCO would design to send in troops after China, with whom they have no clear mutual defense treaty is as laughable as it is insane. Not to mention that half of the SCO's troops wouldn't even be able to afford to pay for the trip there, much less keep them stationed for any significant period of time. And that is not counting the fact that they will most likely find themselves in a similar foreign occupation not unlike that of the US. Or the possibility of armed conflict with the US in a very disadvantageous scenario.
    To put that into perspective, in 2018 the Pentagon calculated that the cost of the Afghan occupation was costing the US 45 billion a year. You hear that right, billion not million, a year. That 20 billion dollars in loans to Venezuela is practically chicken feed compared to what China will have to pay for foreign intervention.
    And quite frankly China should count itself lucky if it can come out of a crisis like Venezuela for only 20 billion short, the writing was on the wall for Maduro for the past 2 years. And yet China still thinks it was a good idea to continue to pump more money into Caracas is anyone's guess, but one thing is clear that it is hardly based on any economic consideration at that point.
    It would be China's luck that it's foreign department is not staffed by people who think that propping up a friendly government is as easy as sending a few navy ships, dropping a few bombs or firing a few missiles, send a few soldiers marching down the street and the whole thing will piece itself together.
     
    #14 Viktor Jav, Feb 4, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  5. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    It's not about greed, simply to get back what others owned you. How can you say that's greed??
    Get back what's yours is your rights, not greed.

    Guiado propped by US, and if he in power , US will call the shot and China interests will be severely harmed and will lose big.

    What China acting responsible is to deny US evil scheme, it knows China and Russia have substantial investment in Venezuela therefore, by propped up a new regime, it can wrestle away and control the Venezuela oil, and make China and Russia lose big.

    China will act as the new balance.
     
    #15 tidalwave, Feb 4, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  6. Viktor Jav
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    Viktor Jav Junior Member
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    Considering how at worse China will lose a total of 20 billion, which is barely a blip on the radar in comparison to China's economy and scale of investment to the rest of the world. And how the US would in turn be saddled with bringing an economy that is wrecked to the point of non function due to mismanagement. Your idea of "big" is completely skewered. Not to mention that there are completely legitimate ways to recover investments from other countries that China can take, such as by taking action through the World Trading Organization/World Aberration Court or by repossessing Venezuelan assets located on Chinese territory. And here is a hint, intervening in a foreign country to prop up a embattled presidency in total violation of legal norms and against the wishes of the population just to reclaim a paltry sum hardly counts as "responsible action" no matter how one twists that defintion.
    Not to mention it was completely impossible for Maduro to repay that 20 billion back to China in the first place.
    And finally again, reiterating my last post. The worst thing that China can do is to throw good money after bad, it is as though the slew of foreign intervention fiascoes that the US had done in the past 20 years not leave any lasting impressions on anyone.
     
    #16 Viktor Jav, Feb 4, 2019
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  7. Viktor Jav
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    Viktor Jav Junior Member
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  8. B.I.B.
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    B.I.B. Senior Member

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    Well said
     
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  9. Biscuits
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    Biscuits Junior Member
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    Lol stealing the money would be suicide. It’s not attached to Maduro, it’s attached to the Venezuelan state. Guaido or Maduro, they’re gonna pay it.

    Washington might give arms support, but Beijing holds all the keys to *any* form of prosperity Venezuela could achieve.

    That’s why Guaido is trying to open diplomatic channel with China and promised that deals would remain in effect while marketing himself as less corrupt and more efficient than Maduro. He knows that if he can convince China that he’s better business than Maduro, then Maduro won’t stand a chance.

    And conversely, if he was stupid enough to give a bad business vibe, he could never rule Venezuela even if he manages a coup.

    Beijing would crush the country with sanctions and force infrastructure handovers. It would be a worse crisis for Venezuelans than under Maduro, and everyone will blame Guaido for it. His days would be numbered even if he’s on the throne.

    Just because he’s illegitimate doesn’t mean he’s stupid.

    From his statements up to now, it appears that he’s trying to give an even better deal in order to make Beijing overlook his legitimacy.

    I could see Xi playing along. Maybe it’s not morally right but it’s what would lead to more money and less risks taken.
     
  10. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Senior Member
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    With this type of thinking, wait till Iran also have its regime change propped up by the West and then China will know the true meaning of that!
     
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