China Flanker Thread II

Discussion in 'Air Force' started by sumdud, Jan 12, 2008.

  1. delft
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    delft Senior Member

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    I kept it simple. In a large aircraft at take off the fuel near the tips of the wings ( fuel will rarely fill the wing to tip ) and especially fuel in tip tanks reduce the moment the wing has to carry at the root and if the aircraft doesn't drop weight from the fuselage, typically passenger and cargo aircraft, the loading of the wing root will be worse when the fuel has been burned.
    In the F-104 Starfighter the wings were bolted to very heavy fuselage frames and there was not an ordinary wing carry through structure. Those frames were chemically milled from heavy blanks from which IIRC some 95% of the metal was removed. Those wings had a thickness of 6 %, had many spars and for every spar there was a frame.
    The BV 144 had a wing carry through structure in the shape of a tube, as had many of the aircraft by its designer Richard Vogt, that contained the fuel and was the shaft for changing the wing incidence.
    There are endless possible variations.
     
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  2. Hyperwarp
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    Hyperwarp Senior Member

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  3. Blackstone
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    Blackstone Senior Member

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    I can't tell by the pictures what engines it's using, do you know?
     
  4. Deino
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    Deino Super Moderator
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    WS-10 for sure ... not a single Flanker - besides the J-15 - off the line at SAC is using AL-31F any more and that since years.

    J-16 yellow - 2.8.16 - 3.jpg
     
  5. tphuang
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    tphuang Super Moderator
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    it's actually amazing they found enough AL-31F to field 20+ J-15s. I don't know where they got that many AL-31F lying around considering that Russians are definitely watching to prevent China from building their own flankers.
     
  6. Hyperwarp
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    Hyperwarp Senior Member

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    PLAAF bought 36 Su-27SK and 12 Su-27UBK from 1992 to 1996. So thats 96 AL-31F if they decided to cannibalize and even more when you consider spares bought for those Su-27SK. Those Su-27SK and Su-27UBK (from batch 1 and 2) are not R-77 compatible. Only the 3rd batch of 28 Su-27UBK are R-77 compatible. So writing-off those flankers from batch 1 & 2 is not a big loss.

    I wonder what engine J-15 destined for CV-17 will have.
     
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  7. antiterror13
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    antiterror13 Senior Member

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    I don't see why the Russian wouldn't sell AL-31x series to China, even for J-15 .... China is unstopable (and Russians know that) whatever Russia would do, so better sell them when you still can
     
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  8. Hyperwarp
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    Hyperwarp Senior Member

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    It is about contracts and licensing. Russia sells engines only if they are contracted or obligated to especially when it comes to Flankers. J-11B/11D, J-16/16D, J-15, etc are not licensed/contracted products. So unless there is a new agreement by the 2 countries that brings all J-11B variants under some licence, the Russians are not going to be supplying any engines for them. Why would they supply engines to a product they consider unlicensed? But make no mistake, Russia still continues supply spares for the contracted fighters such as J-11A, Su-30MKK/MK2. They will be providing AL-41F1S spares for the Su-35SK as well. The conflict is with the J-11B variants.

    CAC, XAC does not have this issue. They don't make J-11B variants and they don't seem to have any licencing issues either. Because of this they have no problem acquiring, the latest AL-31FN series for J-10 as well as D-30 for H-6K. CAC/PAF also does not have problems acquiring RD-93 for JF-17 which is an export plane.

    So in short, Russia supplies plenty of engines to China, just not for the J-11B variants.
     
  9. antiterror13
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    antiterror13 Senior Member

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    @Hyperwarp ... I would have to disagree with you, remember J-11A and early J-11B use AL-31x series ... and no issues at all. I believe the main reason WS-10A is used for most J-11B and later is because Chinese Govt would promote indigenous engine, for J-10C (and prototype J10B) and later WS-10x variant will be used.

    If China had decided to use AL-31x for all variant J11x, I am pretty sure Russia would be extremely happy to sell those
     
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  10. tidalwave
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    tidalwave Junior Member
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    WS10x
     
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