China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

[shanlung]

A model of DF-41 with MIRVs. Not sure if this is accurate or official at all.

DF-41 is a three-stage solid-fueled intercontinental ballistic missile

The model shown depicted the nukes above just the first stage.
An impossibilty to reach 15,000 km with just one stage.

A starry eyed stylistic model of an imaginary missile, with DF-41 painted on the side does not make it a DF-41
Below will be a better image of a DF-41, showing clearly the 3 stages that hurl the final carrier with bus behind that will direct the 10 nukes MIRVed inside.
And note: No fins!

 

[Broccoli]

I don't know whether or not the figures of DF-41 is twisted on purpose, I am only translating what the slide says. On the other hand, where do the warhead figures of DF-31 and DF-5 come from? There were no publications from Chinese source as far as I know. It all depends whom you believe. I myself would equally disbelieve western "experts" if the Chinese figures are deemed "unrealistic".

About the fission bomb, I have no idea of "plutonium being heavier", nor do I know if Chinese fission bombs are plutonium based.

Only source for Chinese warhead weight is classifield NASIC report what was leaked for Bill Gertz back in 1996 (report had statellite pics of DF-31 prototypes and all). Gertz is the same guy who always reported DF-41 tests before everyone else so he got realiable sources inside Pentagon.

If you look official reports those always say that DF-41 is MIRV capable but never mention anything about how many... it could be 3x650kt (DF-31 warhead), 4x200kt (Jl-1/DF-21 warhead) or maybe 6x50kt boosted fission warheads used in missiles like DF-15.

And then there is that new warhead what China was developing with DF-41 but that could anything from totally new warhead to lighter version of DF-31 warhead.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ch...uclear-arms-thread.t5881/page-331#post-581130
I can't get over how ridiculous the model in that post is. WTF are fins doing on an ICBM? And all that empty space between the MIRV bus and the tip, how much more fuel could be packed if the bus were moved up? What are fins doing on the nose if that's going to separate in space to release the individual warheads? It's obvious that... thing was put together by someone who doesn't have the first clue what they're doing.

Anyway, I chanced on this classic and wanted to post it here. This is the closest we'll ever get to seeing a DF-41 launch.

 

[shanlung]

I don't know whether or not the figures of DF-41 is twisted on purpose, I am only translating what the slide says. On the other hand, where do the warhead figures of DF-31 and DF-5 come from? There were no publications from Chinese source as far as I know. It all depends whom you believe. I myself would equally disbelieve western "experts" if the Chinese figures are deemed "unrealistic".

About the fission bomb, I have no idea of "plutonium being heavier", nor do I know if Chinese fission bombs are plutonium based.

An interesting historical note.

The first Chinese A bomb was U235 implosion bomb.
Apparently USA was very shocked as apparently enriched U235 was thought to be way beyond China industrial capabilty in mid 60. USA had expected China be using plutonium which apparently was very much easier.

China Test No 6 shocked USA even more as that was on 17 June 1967 with yield of 3.3 MT. And only 32 months after China first A device went kaboom.
And on top of that Test No 6 was an airdrop fully operational H bomb from a plane and not a device like USA Ivy Mike.

USA first thermonuclear explosion was on Nov 1 1952, or 7 years ++ after Trinity test.
That USA thermonuclear explosion was not even a bomb.
The 82-ton "Mike" device was essentially a building that resembled a factory rather than a weapon. It has been reported that Soviet engineers derisively referred to Mike as a "thermonuclear installation".

Only on Mar 1 1954 that USA got her first practical thermonuclear bomb that went kaboom in Castle Bravo test.

I read somewhere Chinese cores consist of a mix of U235 & Pu.
I believe anything above 50 kt will be a thermonuclear bomb.

 

[Broccoli]

Indian Agni RV's is a good example what happens if you want bigger bang from fission warhead. Their RV's are generally very large & heavy due the fact their only verified warhead is 12-15kt, so if they want more "bang" they need something similar to MR 31/41 what French begun using in 1970s.

 

[Anlsvrthng]

That USA thermonuclear explosion was not even a bomb.
The 82-ton "Mike" device was essentially a building that resembled a factory rather than a weapon. It has been reported that Soviet engineers derisively referred to Mike as a "thermonuclear installation".

.

Just for fairness ,the tank on the left is the bomb, the instrument on the left side on it the deuterium liquefaction plant.
The horizontal pipes on the right are the parts of the observational instruments, they supposed to give data to the high speed camera in the first milliseconds about the propagation of the energy in the casing ,and the timing/working of the stages.

Actually, they give same vague idea about the internal arrangement/geometry of the bomb.

 

[ougoah]

Indian Agni RV's is a good example what happens if you want bigger bang from fission warhead. Their RV's are generally very large & heavy due the fact their only verified warhead is 12-15kt, so if they want more "bang" they need something similar to MR 31/41 what French begun using in 1970s.

It is still doubtful India ever managed a fusion weapon. The only public information available proves their claimed hydrogen bomb tests were most likely failures. Now with their Agni doing its first ever night trial... and failing after a decade or so in service! it's become clear the Indian military does not "mature" their weapons. In fact I suspect their amy and airforce's continuous rejections of Arjun, Tejas, and various missiles in the past (because they've eventually introduced them) were truly because they were unacceptable junk that simply did not work. Even the INSAS rifles they managed to find one single customer for (Nepal) experienced multiple failures and lost soldiers because of the rubbish quality of the rifle.

Lol sorry all that was to say, I wouldn't use Indian anything as an example or measure for other real powers.

 

[antiterror13]

It is still doubtful India ever managed a fusion weapon. The only public information available proves their claimed hydrogen bomb tests were most likely failures. Now with their Agni doing its first ever night trial... and failing after a decade or so in service! it's become clear the Indian military does not "mature" their weapons. In fact I suspect their amy and airforce's continuous rejections of Arjun, Tejas, and various missiles in the past (because they've eventually introduced them) were truly because they were unacceptable junk that simply did not work. Even the INSAS rifles they managed to find one single customer for (Nepal) experienced multiple failures and lost soldiers because of the rubbish quality of the rifle.

Lol sorry all that was to say, I wouldn't use Indian anything as an example or measure for other real powers.

also having h-bomb and able to miniaturise it (so small enough for ICBM) are totally two different things. So India is still way to go ....

 

[shanlung]

Just for fairness ,the tank on the left is the bomb, the instrument on the left side on it the deuterium liquefaction plant.
The horizontal pipes on the right are the parts of the observational instruments, they supposed to give data to the high speed camera in the first milliseconds about the propagation of the energy in the casing ,and the timing/working of the stages.

Actually, they give same vague idea about the internal arrangement/geometry of the bomb.

I thought I was fair enough.

The entire Mike device (including cryogenic equipment) weighed 82 short tons (73.8 metric tonnes), and was housed in a large corrugated-aluminium building called a "shot cab" which was set up on the Pacific island of

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, part of the

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atoll.

I did not include the totality below in the photo.

A 9,000-foot (2.7 km) artificial causeway connected the islands of Elugelab, Teiter, Bogairikk, and Bogon. Atop this causeway was an

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-sheathed

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tube (named a "

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") filled with

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. This allowed

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and

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radiation to pass uninhibited to an unmanned detection station housed in a bunker on Bogon.

 

[Broccoli]

It is still doubtful India ever managed a fusion weapon. The only public information available proves their claimed hydrogen bomb tests were most likely failures. Now with their Agni doing its first ever night trial... and failing after a decade or so in service! it's become clear the Indian military does not "mature" their weapons. In fact I suspect their amy and airforce's continuous rejections of Arjun, Tejas, and various missiles in the past (because they've eventually introduced them) were truly because they were unacceptable junk that simply did not work. Even the INSAS rifles they managed to find one single customer for (Nepal) experienced multiple failures and lost soldiers because of the rubbish quality of the rifle.

Lol sorry all that was to say, I wouldn't use Indian anything as an example or measure for other real powers.

I didn't mention naything about fusion weapon as it's know that Indian test failed, that's why I mentioned old French warheads what they could potentially build and be somewhat sure it gives more yield than the 12-15kt design they weaponized, or if we take a look at Orange Herold from UK what also was heavy and required vast quantaties of fissile material but had big yield... heavy hitters with very poor yield-to-weight ratio.

It would certainly explain why Indian missiles have throw-weight more than 1ton while only carrying one RV (Agni V could probably carry 3x12kt).