china and cluster bombs, white phosphorous

hey people
i think some of u already know that im in the model UN for my university, and i will be representing china.

one of the topics we will be covering is the use of cluster bombs and white phosophous under the main topic "ethics of contemporary warfare"

i have tried to do some research on it, but i haven't been able to get much information so far. thereby, i wanna bring this topic up here with you guys and see if any of you are knowledgeable or interested in discussing this.

i want to know more about china's official policies on those, the possessions, and operational uses of these.

thanks!!

Both are illegal or close to illegal to use in built-up areas under international law. I think there is little attention in China (or on China) in this respect, as the country has not used any of these against an opponent (mostly as it hasn't been at war for a few decades). Furthermore, other major powers (i.e. those with significant stores of these weapons) have declined to abide along these lines, making it easy for China to hide behind them. IMO China would be willing to dismantle their stores (I'm sure they have some) if there was an effective ban on them worldwide.

thanks Maggern!!

as for white phosphorous and predator drones, would you have any information regarding controversies surrounding them? im in the midst of researches myself, and i've already allied up with my russian counterpart. one of our primary topics concerns the use of WMD such as NBC, and even WP and predators.

also, is "china's peaceful rise" considered a policy? and also are there any official statements or protocols, conventions, that china has made/abides by that claimed they will not target foreign states or that their military developments are not directed towards any nations? this is going to be my defense line as soon as india, UK, france, or US tries to accuse us of "military assertions/aggressiveness"

Maggern said:

Both are illegal or close to illegal to use in built-up areas under international law. I think there is little attention in China (or on China) in this respect, as the country has not used any of these against an opponent (mostly as it hasn't been at war for a few decades). Furthermore, other major powers (i.e. those with significant stores of these weapons) have declined to abide along these lines, making it easy for China to hide behind them. IMO China would be willing to dismantle their stores (I'm sure they have some) if there was an effective ban on them worldwide.

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111 countries signed an agreement in Dublin to ban the use. The USA and China and others did not sign the agreement.



As for white phosophous(WP).. I'm sure the US Military still uses it. We use to call WP... Willie Pete.

airsuperiority said:

hey people
i think some of u already know that im in the model UN for my university, and i will be representing china.

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Heh, you actually got China? That's awesome!

If I was China, I would support banning cluster bombs. China doesn't really need it, and if war ever breaks out, such weapons can be devastating to Chinese cities. Of course, the US isn't going to go for it, but it's a good way to score some propaganda points: hey, China is taking a humanitarian position and the US is opposing it!

bd popeye said:

111 countries signed an agreement in Dublin to ban the use. The USA and China and others did not sign the agreement.

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As for white phosophous(WP).. I'm sure the US Military still uses it. We use to call WP... Willie Pete.

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For white phosphorous, I think there was a controversy regarding alledged use in built-up areas by the US military in Fallujah during the re-seizure of the city from insurgents in 2004. Similarly, Israel alledgedly used WP during their invasion of Gaza last year (I think it was). The problem here is that it is sometimes used as illuminator over a battlefield, which I think is allowed. The problem is when it explodes right above some civilians, and consequently fries them (sorry for being callous)

Regarding cluster munitions, yes the recent agreement would be a huge step on the way on banning the use, and seeing how many countries signed it, it would be able to assert itself as customary law, even if the major powers refuse to sign it (but seeing as how these are major powers, they probably would still use them in the event of a real war). In the past decade, I think only Israel, Russia and Georgia have been accused of using cluster munitions, at least in built-up areas. Did the US use any in Iraq?

airsuperiority said:

thanks Maggern!!

as for white phosphorous and predator drones, would you have any information regarding controversies surrounding them? im in the midst of researches myself, and i've already allied up with my russian counterpart. one of our primary topics concerns the use of WMD such as NBC, and even WP and predators.

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I haven't heard of any controversy regarding the use of drones in warfare. As long as there are humans behind the controls, it's all good (if it was pure AI, there would be some controversy regarding the AI's ability to distinguish civilians, surrendering soldiers or relief infrastructure from actual combattants). In addition, the drones allow more surgical strikes, minimizing the risk of collateral damage (as opposed to pure carpet bombing).

White phosphorous was used by US forces in Fallujah to burn insurgents out of bunkers and tunnels. Nasty, nasty stuff. But, hey, those guys were going to die anyway, what does it matter how they died? WP was the most efficient solution that risked the least US lives. Also it was used by Israel in Gaza, I don't know why. It's hard to argue that isn't illegal because they were firing it indiscriminately into civilian areas.

Did the US use any in Iraq?

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Yes...Why? They work and are excellent against mechanized amour. I tried to find a photo that I know of of an aircraft elevator full of cluster bombs.. this is all I could find..

Central Command area of Responsibility (Mar. 11, 2003) - A Plane Captain assigned to the "Fighting Redtails" of Sea Control Squadron Twenty One (VS-21) secures his S-3B "Viking" loaded with CBU-99 antitank cluster bombs just prior to flight operations aboard USS Kitty Hawk (CV 63). The conventional aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk is America's oldest active warship and the only permanently forward-deployed aircraft carrier that operates out of Yokosuka, Japan. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate 3rd Class Todd Frantom. (RELEASED)

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