China and Argentina re Falklands/Malvinas

Blackstone

Blackstone

Brigadier
Jeff Head said:
...and yet apparently the Chinese satellite tracking station has gone in and will be made operational.

Whether the current Argentina administration intends it or not, the opposition's point is valid that such a facility can be a dual use facility and could be used to track military programs as well.

This will already be raising eyebrows in other nations.

Things like this will tend to further isolate Argentina from the west for sure, and potentially from other Latin American nations.

At the same time, the current Argentine administration may be gambling that such cooperation could easily be part of a larger deal that helps Argentina receive arms from China...and thus further move into that sphere.

The more that seems a possibility, the more the things you indicated in your post above could come into play.

We shall see...time will tell.
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What's wrong with dual-use Chinese satellite tracking stations in foreign countries? It's probably not the only nation doing that.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
Miragedriver said:
The current regime in charge does not care about what the western world thinks (unlike many middle class and working Argentine's do), since their mentality is “they will never be our real friends” and the west proved that during the War. This is complete crazy thinking. How could have the USA, and the rest of Western Europe, turned their backs on Britain with years (centuries) of friendship. There are many in the Argentine government that are either not playing with a full deck or cards or that have consumed the “cool aid” and truly believe that America and Europe are the “Great Satan”

Like all liberal/progressives/Socialist they never think out the logical progression of their actions (maybe they should show them how to play Chess). The logical progression to “getting in bed” with China is that you have now told everyone that you are rouge and not with/or supportive of western interests. This will have the results (as mentioned by Jeff and B787) that Western supported nations (Chile for example)will be shown preferential treatment and provided with extras it economy, military and in the UN, that they may need. Just because they are playing well with the West. Argentina on the other hand will have to pay for all these extras in resources, money, territorial integrity and nation pride.

Back to bottling my Grenache
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I think this kind of view is a bit too "cold-war"-ish. Certainly, the US likes to view China as a threatening rival, maybe even a foe, but China is not playing this game. The Chinese are well aware that the US' military advantage cannot be surpassed in the foreseeable future, so they build up their economic game.

The keystone of China's economic policy toward other nations is that China is only interested in doing business, nothing else. Many western-aligned nations trade heavily with China, so I don't see why Argentine would be singled out for doing increased business with China.
 
Miragedriver

Miragedriver

Brigadier
solarz said:
I think this kind of view is a bit too "cold-war"-ish. Certainly, the US likes to view China as a threatening rival, maybe even a foe, but China is not playing this game. The Chinese are well aware that the US' military advantage cannot be surpassed in the foreseeable future, so they build up their economic game.

The keystone of China's economic policy toward other nations is that China is only interested in doing business, nothing else. Many western-aligned nations trade heavily with China, so I don't see why Argentine would be singled out for doing increased business with China.
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As I have always said: “I am just an old Cold Warrior” from an age gone by. I could be mistaken, however I imagine that are many other people in America and Europe that are my age or older, in positions of power (defiantly not me) that still think this way.

You may be younger than I and possibly your generation may think differently about the past than older gents in our 50’s. but that is the reality as I see it with more years on me.


Back to bottling my Grenache and reading Tom Clancy novels
 
b787

b787

Captain
Jeff Head said:
While I understand the sentiments, heck, what would they expect?

If China is allowed by the Argentine government to build a highly sensitive tracking station...even if it is for satellites only...do the people really expect that just anyone can walk into such a facility?

Of course not.

The Chinese will want to maintain OpSec at the facility and they will have guards out there and unless someone has a reason to be there that the people running the place recognize...they are not going to let them in.

The Argentine government will allow this...just like they would for any Argentine or other foreign corporation.

Now...if they refuse to allow official Argentine government officials who ar eon official government business access...that would be different.

But I do not think that is what is happening.

I believe that the facility has been built to local regulations, and that they are going to be allowed to keep the facility secure.

All of this comes with the territory.

If your government lets someone build such a facility...you can bet it is not going to be "open to the public."

This is not something that outsiders are doing on their own...this is something the Argentina government /administration, elected by the people of Argentina, has sanctioned and is allowing. If the people really dislike it, they will simply have to elect different leaders.
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Perhaps i did not explain well what the reporter said, he said in order to enter to the Space monitoring station you have to ask the Chinese Embassy in Argentina, they said two Diputados (government officials) tried to enter and they were denied access, in the other video i posted they said the importance is that base is to help the BeiDou Navigation Satellite System GPS like system.
They said this Tracking station is directly linked to the PLA, in this video they say the same, that despite it is said is controlled by civilians, in reality they are controlled by the Chinese military.

The critics say, that this imply Argentina will enter in the USA-China rivalry, since the base can be used for military purposes, making Argentina a potential military target for the USA.

They also said the station once it is finished only Chinese workers will be there

 
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kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
b787 said:
Perhaps i did not explain well what the reporter said, he said in order to enter to the Space monitoring station you have to ask the Chinese Embassy in Argentina, they said two Diputados (government officials) tried to enter and they were denied access, in the other video i posted they said the importance is that base is to help the BeiDou Navigation Satellite System GPS like system.
They said this Tracking station is directly linked to the PLA, in this video they say the same, that despite it is said is controlled by civilians, in reality they are controlled by the Chinese military.

The critics say, that this imply Argentina will enter in the USA-China rivalry, since the base can be used for military purposes, making Argentina a potential military target for the USA.

They also said the station once it is finished only Chinese workers will be there

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I'm certainly not taking sides here however one simply does not walk into Mordor... Hmm sorry I meant a satellite receiving station. Regardless if it's Chinese or US or any country for that matter. Certainly not military but civilian as well.
Never mind a foreign owned station but I presume even an argentine jcitizen cannot just enter into an argentine commercial satellite station!
As far as the deputados, again that's meaningless UNLESS those guys have specific invites or there for a specific reasons to conduct a preapprove task or meeting etc.

I do not doubt that even if marketed as a civilian/commercial facility the military can certainly take over if the need arises however I think those good reporters are what we call 'hacer una montaña de un grano de arena'.
 
b787

b787

Captain
kwaigonegin said:
I'm certainly not taking sides here however one simply does not walk into Mordor... Hmm sorry I meant a satellite receiving station. Regardless if it's Chinese or US or any country for that matter. Certainly not military but civilian as well.
Never mind a foreign owned station but I presume even an argentine jcitizen cannot just enter into an argentine commercial satellite station!
As far as the deputados, again that's meaningless UNLESS those guys have specific invites or there for a specific reasons to conduct a preapprove task or meeting etc.

I do not doubt that even if marketed as a civilian/commercial facility the military can certainly take over if the need arises however I think those good reporters are what we call 'hacer una montaña de un grano de arena'.
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What the reporters are saying is not they will enter without permit, they are saying that There is no reason they have to ask the Chinese Embassy in Argentina to enter, they are saying the entrance should be regulated by the Argentine authorities since the Station can have military applications and since it is foreign owned in their territory, that is a violation to their sovereignty, because that can create to Argentina conflicts with the US and the monitoring station is vital for Chinese military space program, thus this will make Argentina a potential military target and politically this is not beneficial to Argentina since the agreement was government to government, China can not have more authority in Argentina than the Argentine Government thus the Chinese embassy should not the one that granted the right to enter even to Local politicians in Neuquen, Argentina, since that violates the republican order and the local freedom each province in Argentina has.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
b787 said:
What the reporters are saying is not they will enter without permit, they are saying that There is no reason they have to ask the Chinese Embassy in Argentina to enter, they are saying the entrance should be regulated by the Argentine authorities since the Station can have military applications and since it is foreign owned in their territory, that is a violation to their sovereignty, because that can create to Argentina conflicts with the US and the monitoring station is vital for Chinese military space program, thus this will make Argentina a potential military target and politically this is not beneficial to Argentina since the agreement was government to government, China can not have more authority in Argentina than the Argentine Government thus the Chinese embassy should not the one that granted the right to enter even to Local politicians in Neuquen, Argentina, since that violates the republican order and the local freedom each province in Argentina has.
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Hmmm... so if China built an office building in Argentine, the Argentinian government should be allowed to walk in whenever they feel like it? I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense.
 
b787

b787

Captain
solarz said:
Hmmm... so if China built an office building in Argentine, the Argentinian government should be allowed to walk in whenever they feel like it? I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense.
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It does not make any sense too you that is fine, but it does make sense for the Argentine people, since they think that space station will be used for military purposes, and that is very easy to see, the agreements have not been declassified, it means not many people in Argentina, and that includes politicians know what are the agreements, plus if the uses are civilian, then there is no reason not to have a joint commission and Argentine workers at the station.

I can assure you the British and Americans, won`t swallow the bait it is only for civilian purposes, however since Argentina has a lot of corruption money has bought some politicians, but at the long run, Argentina can pay the price, and if it is truly for civilian purposes, then there is no reason the information should not be declassified and Argentine workers be there.
 
D

delft

Brigadier
b787 said:
What the reporters are saying is not they will enter without permit, they are saying that There is no reason they have to ask the Chinese Embassy in Argentina to enter, they are saying the entrance should be regulated by the Argentine authorities since the Station can have military applications and since it is foreign owned in their territory, that is a violation to their sovereignty, because that can create to Argentina conflicts with the US and the monitoring station is vital for Chinese military space program, thus this will make Argentina a potential military target and politically this is not beneficial to Argentina since the agreement was government to government, China can not have more authority in Argentina than the Argentine Government thus the Chinese embassy should not the one that granted the right to enter even to Local politicians in Neuquen, Argentina, since that violates the republican order and the local freedom each province in Argentina has.
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There are more extreme cases of foreign establishments in a country. The US has some twenty nuclear weapons in the Netherlands. The Dutch parliament was never asked to agree to their presence and indeed a few years back accepted a motion demanding their removal. They are still there and I don't imagine there will ever be an Open House in which Dutch people can go and look at them.
 
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