Chen Guangcheng is in the US embassy in Beijing!!

bd popeye · Apr 28, 2012

I'll permit you fellows to chew on this story for a while. Be polite..do not get out of hand. Politics allowed in this thread only!

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China dissident Chen Guangcheng is in the US embassy in Beijing following his dramatic escape from house arrest, activist Hu Jia has told the BBC.

Mr Hu said Mr Chen - who is blind - had scaled a high wall and was driven hundreds of kilometres to Beijing.

Other, unconfirmed, reports say Mr Chen is under "US protection" while talks take place with Chinese officials.

Mr Chen escaped on Sunday, activists say, and has since released a video addressed to Prime Minister Wen Jiabao.

There are reports that his brother and nephew have now been held by police.

The rights group Human Rights in China quoted a source who knew about Mr Chen, and said his nephew Chen Kegui was taken away from his home by more than 30 police officers.

Mr Chen's escape complicates already tricky relations between China and the United States and could overshadow a visit to Beijing next week by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. She has repeatedly called for the dissident's release.

The US state department has refused to comment on the claim that Mr Chen is in its embassy. The US embassy in Beijing has also not commented.

In the latest development, the Texas-based ChinaAid group released a statement on Saturday saying it had "learned from a source close to the Chen Guangcheng situation that Chen is under US protection" in Beijing.

"High-level talks are currently under way between US and Chinese officials regarding Chen's status," said the group, which is led by Bob Fu, an American-based human rights campaigner and friend of Mr Chen.
Unidentified raiders

UN human rights chief Navi Pillay said she was concerned for the wellbeing of Mr Chen and his family, who live in Dongshigu town, Shandong province.

"I'm disturbed to hear reports that other family members, including his brother Chen Guangfu and nephew Chen Kegui, have now been detained," she said in a statement.

Blogger Yaxue Cao says he spoke to Chen Kegui on Friday at about 01:30 local time (Thursday 17:30 GMT), and he has transcribed the interview on his blog Seeing Red in China.

The transcript suggests that at the time of the interview Chen Guangfu had already been detained.

Chen Kegui was awaiting police arrest, having initially resisted an attempt to detain him by unidentified men less than two hours before by slashing at them with kitchen knives.

"Around midnight, about two hours ago, they entered our property by jumping over the enclosed walls, they pried open the locks and kicked on the doors. I heard my mother crying inside, helplessly: 'Please don't come in! Please don't come in!'"

Chen Kegui, who often sobs during the interview, insists: "I did not take knives to go out to kill anyone. I was defending myself in my own home. They attempted to apprehend me without showing any warrant.

Demands

Chen Guangcheng, 40, was placed under house arrest after being released from a four-year jail sentence in 2010. Reports suggest authorities only realised he had escaped on Thursday.

Mr Hu - a friend of Mr Chen and himself a prominent activist and dissident - said he had met him in the last 72 hours, since his escape.

He said Mr Chen had fled to the US embassy in Beijing.

In his video addressed to Prime Minister Wen, delivered from a darkened room, Mr Chen said outwitting his guards had not been easy.

In the appeal, posted online by Boxun, a Chinese dissident news website based in the United States, he asks that:

Prime Minister Wen investigate and prosecute local officials Mr Chen says beat up his family members
The safety of his family be ensured
Corruption in general in China be dealt with and punished according to the law

The Chinese authorities have come under international criticism for their treatment of him. At one point his daughter was barred from school. Many sympathisers who have tried to visit his home say they have been beaten up.

A self-schooled legal activist, Mr Chen is known for revealing rights abuses under China's one-child policy and has accused officials in Shandong province of forcing 7,000 women into abortions or sterilisations.
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He Peirong, another China-based activist who had also campaigned for Chen Guangcheng, has also been detained at her home in Nanjing according to other activists.

The Chen affair comes at an unwelcome time for China's leaders, who have been embroiled in a lurid political scandal involving disgraced former party boss Bo Xilai.

SampanViking · Apr 28, 2012

The most important thing to remember here Popeye is just how little currency most of these dissidents have inside the PRC. They have no substantial public or popular following with the Chinese and only seem to have value to overseas News Agencies and Pressure Groups.

In many instances it would be like the Chinese Media reporting as headlines every post critical of Western Government's that Sampanviking posts on the Internet or for that reason quoting a Mr B D Popeye as an expert on all matters relating to the USN. If you see what I mean. We would be very famous in China but everyone in our own countries would be shaking their heads and wondering who the heck we were......

On the ground, the US Beijing embassy now has a major headache it could do without. To many Chinese this guy is simply an escaped felon now being given sanctuary in a foreign embassy. To the US authorities they now have to work out what they can do about him. Chen has no intelligence value it is unlikely that they will be able to remove him from China without Chinese agreement, assuming that this is what they actually want to do.
On the other hand, after building him up as a "moral force for good and human rights" they can hardly hand him back without losing considerable face. The only other alternative is be become a permanent resident as the Embassy, but this sounds highly unlikely.

Instead, it sounds as though the US will now need to negotiate the terms in which they can remove someone of no intrinsic intelligence (and very minor political) value, from China to the US under conditions that China has absolutely nothing to lose. In short to avoid having to give Chen back, America is going to have to pay through the nose to keep him.

If you hear a loud grinding sound during State Dept news briefings about how much they value Chen, its probably Hilary's teeth!

Mr T · Apr 28, 2012

SampanViking said:
The most important thing to remember here Popeye is just how little currency most of these dissidents have inside the PRC.

If that's the case, I don't see why the authorities take such extraordinary steps to persecute them. Putting a blind man under house arrest for two years and beating his family up doesn't seem logical if they're no threat.

In many instances it would be like the Chinese Media reporting as headlines every post critical of Western Government's that Sampanviking posts on the Internet or for that reason quoting a Mr B D Popeye as an expert on all matters relating to the USN.

Sorry, Sampan, but I don't recall you uncovering any scandals in the UK or campaigning for the rights of oppressed groups/individuals. And your wife certainly hasn't been assaulted by the police because of what you've said in public.

To many Chinese this guy is simply an escaped felon now being given sanctuary in a foreign embassy.

And to many he's a persecuted hero. The majority probably don't have a view because news of him is largely kept out of the mainstream media.

Instead, it sounds as though the US will now need to negotiate the terms in which they can remove someone of no intrinsic intelligence (and very minor political) value, from China to the US under conditions that China has absolutely nothing to lose. In short to avoid having to give Chen back, America is going to have to pay through the nose to keep him.

Again, the facts don't back you up. The Chinese authorities have spent millions keeping Chen and his family locked up. Why would you do that if you didn't care about someone? If we followed your logic, Chen would have been allowed to get on with his life or taken to the airport, told to seek asylum in the US and then have his passport torn up once he was on the plane so he didn't come back.

The issue of what to do with Chen is a headache for both the Chinese and US governments. It is true that the US can't give Chen back because they know what will happen to him - and Obama would be ripped to shreds by Romney in the presidential debates if he allowed him to be handed back. The timing couldn't be worse given the upcoming meetings. But at the same time, the Politburo has a problem. The official line is that the issue of the treatment of Chen and his family has been a local matter, so that they could try to avoid responsibility. If they take a hard line against letting him go, their denials of involvement in mistreatment will look hollow. But they can't just let him go meekly, because that would send the wrong message to other Chinese activists.

Also, spare a thought for the poor local officials in Linyi. They seemed to have had a good thing going It's going to be hard to continue spending those resources on keeping Chen's family locked up. Not to mention they might get a serious reprimand for letting him get away in the first place.

SampanViking · Apr 28, 2012

The problem the Beijing authorities have with so many of these self styled dissidents is their methods rather than their actual objectives (with of course some notable exceptions). In Chen's case he was jailed for inciting a riot. Other countries also put people under house arrest for encouraging violence.

In terms of public reaction in China, I think you may see a small number of people try to appear outside in support of Chen, but only when they know that the overseas media will be there.

Far more likely are very large demonstrations from very angry young nationalists demanding his return to Chinese custody. Certainly if the new left were in the ascendancy, this would be a given. Fortunately however it is the Shopkeepers that hold the levers of power and they will not wish to see any such thing.

The timing of things are of course hardly ever coincidental and other commentators have noted; post the Wang incident, that it was likely that any time anybody wanted some attention all they had to do was visit their local US consulate.

Chen of himself has no political power base and so an attempt to rally mass public support would be farcical. I do however see a possible attempt at mischief making during the power transition and testing the already sore relations between Princelings and Shopkeepers. This would be precisely about how the party reacts to an escaped fugitive being given sanctuary by the US and the appropriate response.

The new left princelings would actively want to whip up public outrage and would be pleased to see mass anti US demonstrations outside the embassy and engage in further dramatic public actions like expelling diplomats and suspending wide ranging ties.

The shopkeepers will want to keep everything very calm and quiet, while they slowly turn the screw on the US and let Chen stew.

I will be watching the Chinese reaction with very great interest.

Mr T · Apr 28, 2012

Rubbish, he was imprisoned because he was drawing too much attention to issues the authorities would rather were not discussed in public. He successfully appealed his first conviction because of a lack of evidence, yet somehow was convicted successfully the second time on the same charges and evidence. That strikes me as a bit strange. Maybe all the regular judges in the appeal court got food poisoning from the lunch special and the first appeal was granted by a rookie judge that didn't know his arse from his elbow? These courts need to sort their canteen hygiene out - can't have judges spending all their time on the toilet.

But the most important thing is that he was released from jail in 2010. Whether or not he deserved to be convicted, he served his time. He hadn't committed any offences after his release. If he had, there'd be another pending court case. There isn't one. His detention at home was illegal, even under Chinese law. Chen has done nothing illegal by going to Beijing. You can't break the law by fleeing illegal detention.

On the point of protests, I wouldn't be surprised if his supporters stay away unless the world's press are watching. If they're watching, it would make it harder for those protesters to be beaten up or bundled into vans by plain-clothes "police". Even then they might play it safe and find other ways to show their support for him. Whereas of course anyone protesting against his stay in the embassy will be given the freedom to do so.

J-XX · Apr 28, 2012

this chinese government is as weak as the qing dynasty.

america is allowed to run rings around the chinese leaders.
more than 1000 unregistered US NGOs, american journalists trashing china in china, illegal golf courses build, vietnam and phillippines making a complete mockery of china and the chinese leaders are powerless to stop it. what a bunch of incompetent leaders.

its time china had a revolution and installed some hardliners into power like mao.

SampanViking · Apr 28, 2012

No it was definitely incitement he was jailed for in 2006.
As for the home detention being illegal, that is a very strong statement and one which I hope you can prove. It is not unusual in many developed countries; even in the UK, to release certain persons from Prison early to a regime of home detention. As I have not seen the detention order or know the appropriate section of Chinese law, I will not comment further and would strongly discourage others from making further uninformed comment as well.

The only real capital that I can see the US making out of this, would be if large anti US protests outside the embassy became unruly and turned into full blown anti American riots, targeting not only the embassy but also US businesses and nationals in general.

There is a danger that the New Left might actually desire this to bring down the progressives by blaming the outbreak of "spontaneous public rage on their weak public response, which left many patriots humiliated......"

Likewise, one does need to be a rocket scientist to work out the narrative that would be given to such public unrest in the middle of a power transition by the Western Media.

Personally though I see that as remote as the danger is highly predictable and can be countered by careful control of anti sanctuary demonstrations.

---------- Post added at 08:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------

J-XX said:
this chinese government is as weak as the qing dynasty.

america is allowed to run rings around the chinese leaders.
more than 1000 unregistered US NGOs, american journalists trashing china in china, illegal golf courses build, vietnam and phillippines making a complete mockery of china and the chinese leaders are powerless to stop it. what a bunch of incompetent leaders.

its time china had a revolution and installed some hardliners into power like mao.

Absolutely nothing would play into the hands of the hawks in the west quite like that course of action.

J-XX · Apr 28, 2012

SampanViking said:
No it was definitely incitement he was jailed for in 2006.
As for the home detention being illegal, that is a very strong statement and one which I hope you can prove. It is not unusual in many developed countries; even in the UK, to release certain persons from Prison early to a regime of home detention. As I have not seen the detention order or know the appropriate section of Chinese law, I will not comment further and would strongly discourage others from making further uninformed comment as well.

The only real capital that I can see the US making out of this, would be if large anti US protests outside the embassy became unruly and turned into full blown anti American riots, targeting not only the embassy but also US businesses and nationals in general.

There is a danger that the New Left might actually desire this to bring down the progressives by blaming the outbreak of "spontaneous public rage on their weak public response, which left many patriots humiliated......"

Likewise, one does need to be a rocket scientist to work out the narrative that would be given to such public unrest in the middle of a power transition by the Western Media.

Personally though I see that as remote as the danger is highly predictable and can be countered by careful control of anti sanctuary demonstrations.

---------- Post added at 08:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------

Absolutely nothing would play into the hands of the hawks in the west quite like that course of action.

and why would china give a damn about what hawks in the west thinks.
china will do what it wants, when it wants and how it wants in its own country.

and what exactly is the west going to do, launch nukes?

SampanViking · Apr 28, 2012

J-XX said:
and why would china give a flying f**k about what hawks in the west thinks.
china will do what it wants, when it wants and how it wants in its own country.

and what exactly is the west going to do, launch nukes?

First of all calm down and mind the language please, otherwise the thread will be closed.

The answer to your question is well outside of the remit of both this thread and indeed this forum.
All I can say is do not allow yourself to be deliberately provoked into doing something rash and ill considered. It will only serve the purposes of those that do not wish you well.

AssassinsMace · Apr 28, 2012

The people who orchestrated this... I think it's more of a move against Obama. Chen is known for fighting the abortion policies in China. This happens a week before Hillary Clinton arrives in China? What more to give a headache to Obama's foreign policy credentials. Turn him away like they did to the Chongqing police chief or protect him and possibly have Sino-US relation go in a downward spiral. Either way is a hit on Obama's foreign policy credentials.

Really, China should just let anyone who wants to leave to find out themselves. What dissident who has been allowed to leave China is still getting attention? On top of that tens of millions of Chinese flooding into the US and smaller Western countries... they'll find out themselves what they really think about them. Living in the San Francisco Bay Area with the reputation of the most liberal open-mindedness in America... they'll find out themselves. In San Francisco you hear liberals talk about how they're too many Asians in the city. Yeah the only US city where the largest minority group is apolitical has given the political majority unprecedented power to carry out their whims of social engineering and they have a problem with the number of Asians in the city?

Chen Guangcheng is in the US embassy in Beijing!!

bd popeye

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Mr T

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J-XX

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