What's the endurance of the Halifax class? Are you telling me they can't go up and down of each coast without an AOR? Even in the case of traversing the artic, we can't set up supply depot in Yukon or Nunavut?
Canadian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
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What's the endurance of the Halifax class? Are you telling me they can't go up and down of each coast without an AOR? Even in the case of traversing the artic, we can't set up supply depot in Yukon or Nunavut?
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Vincent The Canadian Coast line is the largest in the World! 202,080 km, out of the 356,000 km of Coastline of the World. Even Russia is only 37,653 km the US 19,924 km. A Lot of that coast line is broken up islands or hidden under Ice pack most of the time. to cover that you need supply ships, as you will need more than 1 or 2 bases and your supply points are going to be more and more away from developed areas.
The Canadian navy is maybe 60 ships. That's a stretch
The Canadian navy is maybe 60 ships. That's a stretch
Most of those coast lines are frozen or totally inhospitable most of the year, and we do have native towns and Rangers up north, don't we?
Anyways, who are we being protect against? Pirates? Agent provocateur? Poachers? Wouldn't beefing up coast guards make more sense against those threats?
If the navy needs to defend us against Russia, how likely is it for Russia to land a few divisions in the tundra and move down south? How do those troops get resupply?
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
And with Increased feuding between the Canadian and Russian government over resources expect that to get busier.
That's pretty much it right there for the defencive worry. Coast guards are fine for small scale stuff but IF Russia moves to grab oil or resources a few small cutters are easy pickings.
The Job of a Navy is patrol of and maintenance of Territory, A Coast guard is for search rescue and Law enforcement.
I also point back to the Article you reacted to.
And I quote.
IE The Halifax class you pointed to are at this point over 20 years old, That's pretty close of the life span of most modern small naval combatants. there is no indication of a move to actually expand the navy anywhere near the USN scale.
Also a point you seem to miss is what exactly a Supply ship is. In this case Oiler is the more important. because there is so little up north refueling at sea is more critical. and because there is so little and so much ice even if you established resupply bases you would need to 1 Build them as you can't just Air drop materials to them and hope for the best. 2 crew them, 3 clear them of Ice , 4 defend them as you now have useful infrastructure and targets if a fight did come.
5 build enough of them so that the Ships on patrol can resupply enough to complete their patrol.
by contrast moving supply ships can make the port calls for them, are crewed, can follow Icebreakers as opposed to needing a fleet of them, Are mobile and can move away from trouble and can force multiply by moving with the patrol.
Jura The idiot
General
PiSigma
"the engineer"
We got no money for defence in Canada. Also considering the last time we got used sub's from Britain, 2 had fires before even making it to Canada. Total fiasco.
We also have no industry for sub's or a need for them. What we need are coast guard ships and corvettes/frigates. These ships can be built in Canada. We don't have the capability to build anything larger than frigates right now.
Also, no one will invade Canada, our winter will take care of them. Our -40 weather + windchill, enjoy.
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
I doubt a actual invasion of Canada and it's not the Winter that would push it off.
The major threat to Canada today is the issues in the far north regarding border disputes of territorial waters with a nation whose winters go to -60 before windchill.
It's that no one would gain anything but trouble from it. due to the fact that they would be picking a fight with the second largest military in the Americas followed by First. Because if anyone did invade the Canadian land mass The US would be backing Canada actively.
but still a nation needs some degree of defence and a Coast guard is not defence.
On top of which Canada is active in NATO and Joint operations with the US.
Now onto the Fires, none of the Boats Canada has were new they were all Victoria class and bought used. The newest of the boats launched 25 years ago.
If Canada was to buy new subs I would say 1) this would likely be some time in the next decade, 2) Being Blunt Canada is about as likely to buy Nuclear subs as I am at Dating Scarlett Johansson.
This means the UK is out. the UK has phased out it's diesel submarine's All the current boats of the UK are Nuclear. The US is limited. There is now 1 Diesel offering an Unmanned Sub by Boeing this Echo Voyager this actually might be an option for buy though as unmanned boats could extend the mission capabilities keep prices down due to smaller size and patrol for longer times.
So What is a realistic option? for say the late 2020's?
German Type 214
French Shortfin Barracuda
Spanish S-80 class
Japanese Soryu class
Swedish A26 submarine concept
The major threat to Canada today is the issues in the far north regarding border disputes of territorial waters with a nation whose winters go to -60 before windchill.
It's that no one would gain anything but trouble from it. due to the fact that they would be picking a fight with the second largest military in the Americas followed by First. Because if anyone did invade the Canadian land mass The US would be backing Canada actively.
but still a nation needs some degree of defence and a Coast guard is not defence.
On top of which Canada is active in NATO and Joint operations with the US.
Now onto the Fires, none of the Boats Canada has were new they were all Victoria class and bought used. The newest of the boats launched 25 years ago.
If Canada was to buy new subs I would say 1) this would likely be some time in the next decade, 2) Being Blunt Canada is about as likely to buy Nuclear subs as I am at Dating Scarlett Johansson.
This means the UK is out. the UK has phased out it's diesel submarine's All the current boats of the UK are Nuclear. The US is limited. There is now 1 Diesel offering an Unmanned Sub by Boeing this Echo Voyager this actually might be an option for buy though as unmanned boats could extend the mission capabilities keep prices down due to smaller size and patrol for longer times.
So What is a realistic option? for say the late 2020's?
German Type 214
French Shortfin Barracuda
Spanish S-80 class
Japanese Soryu class
Swedish A26 submarine concept
Senators didn't know weed aren't legal yet and smoked too much of it
How are we gonna pay for AEGIS ships, fifth-gen fighters and now subs with a rapidly aging population? It is one thing to ask me to pay for other people's education and health care. It is totally another thing to pay for show the flag ops in the Black Sea, Mediterranean sea, Baltic Sea, etc.
don't get me wrong, i don't mind paying for self defence. I just don't want to pay for imperial adventures or helping Uncle Sam's misadventures
How are we gonna pay for AEGIS ships, fifth-gen fighters and now subs with a rapidly aging population? It is one thing to ask me to pay for other people's education and health care. It is totally another thing to pay for show the flag ops in the Black Sea, Mediterranean sea, Baltic Sea, etc.
don't get me wrong, i don't mind paying for self defence. I just don't want to pay for imperial adventures or helping Uncle Sam's misadventures
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Your English is breaking down, and statement is nonsensical. especially given the last few years.
First Are they actually calling for Aegis ships in the Single Class Surface Combatant Project? Any expansion would likely leverage that program
Second Fifth Gen fighter program cast are not that much higher than the CFA18's they are now buying as filler.
Third As I indicated you are not likely to see any action on any of this until the second half of the next decade
fourth, Canada and the Us populations are about the same. and nothing compared to the falls of other nations.
Fourth The canadian Economy has been growing.
finally Although the Canadian Army has deployed with the US in the past most of the Canadian Naval operations have been NATO not Directly US.
First Are they actually calling for Aegis ships in the Single Class Surface Combatant Project? Any expansion would likely leverage that program
Second Fifth Gen fighter program cast are not that much higher than the CFA18's they are now buying as filler.
Third As I indicated you are not likely to see any action on any of this until the second half of the next decade
fourth, Canada and the Us populations are about the same. and nothing compared to the falls of other nations.
Fourth The canadian Economy has been growing.
finally Although the Canadian Army has deployed with the US in the past most of the Canadian Naval operations have been NATO not Directly US.
Huh? I think my English is better than yours
A couple posts ago the Minstry of Defence was calling for ships with area defence. Sounds like calling for Aegis ships to me
Have you seen StatsCan's reports on population aging lately?
Canadian economy is growing on the back of a YUGE housing gas bag
NATO is just a front for US
A couple posts ago the Minstry of Defence was calling for ships with area defence. Sounds like calling for Aegis ships to me
Have you seen StatsCan's reports on population aging lately?
Canadian economy is growing on the back of a YUGE housing gas bag
NATO is just a front for US