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solarz

Brigadier
I can talk past you too same as how you have been avoiding having an actual discussion and justing repeating your points, making presumptuous accusations, and talking past me.

You have been saying that even after adults have been found to be criminals they should still be kept together with the unrelated children they showed up with, no exceptions. Now you are saying in addition to that, thereby providing opportunities for established criminals to prey on children instead of pre-empting them, the target country also has to be an omniscient and omnipotent Big Brother in order to intervene just in time.

What kind of logic is that?

You have never addressed the conundrum of how the immigrants are fleeing such inept, hostile, and corrupt environments yet the target country has to rely on these inept, hostile, and corrupt environments to verify their stories. Not to mention the conflict of interest in how some of these inept, hostile, and corrupt environments can benefit from successful emigration to the US.

As to whether Canada is handling "a lot" of "asylum seekers" (fleeing domestic violence requires specifically migrating to North America) well, see how it goes when a dozen million illegal immigrants have been operating in the country for decades and hundreds of thousands more come every year. Established criminals can easily hide their crimes against children rather than be noticed, forget about being dealt with, especially if the authorities aren't actually an omniscient and omnipotent Big Brother and only has shoddy means of verification.

You're not making any sense. These people are having their children taken away while their asylum claims are being processed. How are they "found to be criminals"? Did you miss the part where I said "until their claims can be verified"?

Canada, and the US as well, has been receiving illegal immigrants for decades. Society has not collapsed because we didn't take their children away, so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. What does the ability to verify their stories have to do with separating them from their children??
 
That's simply BS. The upper echelons are the one's taking advantage of exploiting the illegals for cheap labor and place the blame on them after profiting so much. I don't get why some of the lower echelons place the blame on the upper echelons for this immoral exploitation? Because deep down it is about race. Many (not all) White Americans felt threaten of illegals coming here and changing the demographic and ways of life that could come with it. Remember the Pilgrims were the original illegals in this land before they settled and started to multiply and replacing the indigenous population and over taking their land.

NO I'm not trying to start a race debate or yelling, rather I am pointing out to the obvious from what I've gathered from many friends and family members discussion of this sensitive topic.

Do you mean why don't some of the lower echelons place the blame on the upper echelons for this immoral exploitation?

I think the conversation has been deliberately oriented away from this aspect because of its obvious sensitivity to the powers that be and its reality check on American propaganda and mythology. This is relatively easy since there are other more sensational aspects of the issue including the racism you mentioned.
 
You're not making any sense. These people are having their children taken away while their asylum claims are being processed. How are they "found to be criminals"? Did you miss the part where I said "until their claims can be verified"?

Canada, and the US as well, has been receiving illegal immigrants for decades. Society has not collapsed because we didn't take their children away, so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. What does the ability to verify their stories have to do with separating them from their children??

I may not seem to make sense to you because you are ignoring the many aspects of the issue I brought up. Again your ignorance of problems and refusal to address realities doesn't mean they don't exist.
 

solarz

Brigadier
I may not seem to make sense to you because you are ignoring the many aspects of the issue I brought up. Again your ignorance of problems and refusal to address realities doesn't mean they don't exist.

Which aspects of this issue requires the forcible separation of children from their parents???
 
Which aspects of this issue requires the forcible separation of children from their parents???

When nothing is known about these migrants other than their desire to illegally cross the border, thereby they may well be part of a human smuggling enterprise that could be for sexual abuse or slave labor, why should their claims of being family be taken at face value?

If these migrants are supposedly fleeing such untrustworthy authorities in their home countries why should the US trust these untrustworthy authorities' records as to whether these migrants are criminals or innocents? Or even whether they are related?

When the US does have records of these migrants being criminals and they would otherwise be in jail why should they be given a free pass and be kept together with their children just because they were caught attempting to illegally cross the border?
 

solarz

Brigadier
When nothing is known about these migrants other than their desire to illegally cross the border, thereby they may well be part of a human smuggling enterprise that could be for sexual abuse or slave labor, why should their claims of being family be taken at face value?

If these migrants are supposedly fleeing such untrustworthy authorities in their home countries why should the US trust these untrustworthy authorities' records as to whether these migrants are criminals or innocents? Or even whether they are related?

When the US does have records of these migrants being criminals and they would otherwise be in jail why should they be given a free pass and be kept together with their children just because they were caught attempting to illegally cross the border?

What are you saying? Do you have any other way of verifying their claims, or are you proposing to lock up every migrant on the chance that they might be murderers and rapists?

And who said anything about jailing criminals with their kids? We are talking about people being forcibly separated from their kids while waiting for their asylum application to be processed!
 
What are you saying? Do you have any other way of verifying their claims, or are you proposing to lock up every migrant on the chance that they might be murderers and rapists?

And who said anything about jailing criminals with their kids? We are talking about people being forcibly separated from their kids while waiting for their asylum application to be processed!

You were saying that the adults and children who claim to be related should be kept together no matter what.

During the period when there is no proof either way it's just as reasonable to err on the side of doubting their claims as it is to err on the side of believing their claims due to the inherently suspicious circumstances, actions, and claims.
 

solarz

Brigadier
You were saying that the adults and children who claim to be related should be kept together no matter what.

During the period when there is no proof either way it's just as reasonable to err on the side of doubting their claims as it is to err on the side of believing their claims due to the inherently suspicious circumstances, actions, and claims.

I said they should be kept together until their claims can be verified!

And no, it is not reasonable to separate them before then. They are already held in detention, their actions monitored. Action can be taken if any of the children's safety is threatened, but until then, there is absolutely no reason to separate the children from their parents.
 
I said they should be kept together until their claims can be verified!

And no, it is not reasonable to separate them before then. They are already held in detention, their actions monitored. Action can be taken if any of the children's safety is threatened, but until then, there is absolutely no reason to separate the children from their parents.

Therefore you are erring on the side of offering opportunities for a population of more likely than average to be unsavory adults to prey on children. It is not a perfect solution either way.

It has also already been pointed out that there are both practical and logical flaws when it comes to verifying their claims.

While I can see how your preferred handling of the issue can be considered more compassionate, I am just pointing out that it makes a lot of assumptions and takes a lot of risks and is not as simple nor as morally foolproof as you make it sound.
 
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