Breaking news!!

Schumacher said:

The English ruler fights back, vowing to ignore "Phony concerns about human rights".

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You've posted a piece of garbage, and quite honestly I'm not surprised given that you have no idea of what life in the UK is really like.

333 deaths in police custody? According to the Guardian this was over 11 years and largely down to officers not having sufficient first aid training or monitoring drunk/substance-abusing prisoners. There was no suggestion that those 333 had been deliberately killed by police officers.

16 year old girl attacked that started the riots? That was an unsubtantiated rumour. Even now there's still no name attached to this person. You would have thought she'd had put her hand up and gone to The Sun for £50,000 to tell her story.

Youtube video. There's nothing in the video to identify when or where it was taken, nor what the circumstances were. No one would want to see some innocent kids grabbed by the police, but if they'd just looted or vandalised some shops and/or attacked the police I doubt few people would care if they were arrested in a forceful way.

Shoot on sight. No such order has been given, though some members of the public called for it.

Let's look at the facts of the riots.

1. No water cannon, tear gas, rubber/live ammunition used against the rioteers/looters.
2. No rioteers/looters killed by police.
3. No state of emergency/curfew adopted.
4. All deaths from the violence currently attributable to the action of foresaid criminals.
5. Communities standing together against the violence. Political solidarity (bar a bit of point scoring).
6. Suspects being properly charged and prosecuted.

From a human rights perspective that's a good list.

A list of political ass-covering more like.

What about the basic human rights of the victims to safely live their lives free of fear and threat of violence?

I would also question just how 'properly' suspects are being prosecuted when courts are working through the night hearing hundreds of cases and passing custodial sentences on the spot.

Again, if this was not happening in a western country, I dare say the media would be full of accusations of 'kangaroo courts'.

plawolf said:

A list of political ass-covering more like.

What about the basic human rights of the victims to safely live their lives free of fear and threat of violence?

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That's not the allegation the above users were making. They were suggesting that the UK government has launched a brutal crackdown, which is clearly nonsense.

There are no crime-free societies. If you want to start a thread on the best ways to run a police force, feel free. That's not what this thread is about.

I would also question just how 'properly' suspects are being prosecuted when courts are working through the night hearing hundreds of cases and passing custodial sentences on the spot.

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If the courts weren't working through the night, people would have to spend a lot longer in the cells waiting to be heard. That would be an infringement of their human rights. Then there's the fact that a large number appear to be pleading guilty and/or having their cases referred to the Crown court. Besides, magistrates have the right to pass sentence. It might be preferable to do it on a later date, but these are exceptional circumstances. And if anyone feels their sentence is unfair, they can appeal.

Again, if this was not happening in a western country, I dare say the media would be full of accusations of 'kangaroo courts'.

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Maybe, maybe not - would depend on the situation. But the UK has a generally good reputation regarding its courts, so it's hardly surprising if there's little criticism of processing suspects swiftly.

Mr T said:

That's not the allegation the above users were making. They were suggesting that the UK government has launched a brutal crackdown, which is clearly nonsense.

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What is nonsense is the above strawman argument.

I have not seen anyone who is suggesting that the UK has launched a 'brutal crackdown'. The point others have pointed out is that the measures that British politicians are making a point in authorising (like the use of rubber bullets, watercannons and blocks to social networking sites) are the exact same measures people like you have been listing as the hallmarks of a brutal crackdown.

Having made those soundbites, do you think the British government would be able to back down and go with 'softly softly' approach if trouble flared up again?

The point is that they are fully committed to use tactics and measures you smuggling condemned as 'brutal crackdowns' when someone you don't like was using them. But when it's the British government, suddenly all these excuses and reasons spill from your mouth like an endless stream when you couldn't have had less time for those exact same arguments when they were presented to defend how countries like China have responded to far more violent and destructive riots.

There are no crime-free societies. If you want to start a thread on the best ways to run a police force, feel free. That's not what this thread is about.

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Yes, real classy. Me don't like what you are saying, so what you are saying is off topic and you should not play in my sandbox!

If the courts weren't working through the night, people would have to spend a lot longer in the cells waiting to be heard. That would be an infringement of their human rights. Then there's the fact that a large number appear to be pleading guilty and/or having their cases referred to the Crown court. Besides, magistrates have the right to pass sentence. It might be preferable to do it on a later date, but these are exceptional circumstances. And if anyone feels their sentence is unfair, they can appeal.

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So where is this understanding when people were looking at how quickly China passed sentences on rioters and concluded they could not possibly have gotten a fair trial?

At first I liked this thread..now it's turned into a flame war..with some members posting mis-information. This thread is not in the spirit of this forum. Consider this a warning to the members involved. You know who you are!! Fortunately for you you all are long time members and I don't want to ban you...for now..

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