Between the Han and Tang Dynasties

solarz

Brigadier
The Han and Tang dynasties were both "golden ages" of Chinese civilization, both regional "superpowers" militarily and economically, and both were extremely influential culturally.

However, between the end of the Han dynasty and the beginning of the Tang dynasty lies almost 400 years of "lost history" (220 AD to 618 AD). We are most familiar with only the beginning and the end of those "lost centuries": the Three Kingdoms period (220-280) and the Sui dynasty (581-618). That still leaves about 300 years of what I would term as China's "Dark Age".

This period is characterized by fragmentation, short lived dynasties, and almost constant war that rivals the Warring States period. The famous Battle of Fei River is from this age. The King of the North, Fu Jian, amassed an enormous army of northern "barbarians" to invade the weakened Han kingdom of the South (East Jin). The East Jin army was literally outnumbered 10 to 1, but by some miracle, managed to completely obliterate Fu Jian's 800,000-strong army.

Some historians believe that had Fu Jian won the battle, China might have been united 200 years earlier. Personally, I disagree with that assessment, as the fact that Fu Jian's "empire" collapsed after this single defeat shows he did not have the necessary structure for a lasting empire. In comparison, the short-lived Sui launched 3 campaigns against Goguryeo where they lost millions of men, and the imperial power still survived. The Tang dynasty was literally able to attrition Goguryeo to destruction.

In any case, even if Fu Jian might not have been a good candidate, I have to wonder why no one else was able to rise to the task of unification until the Sui Empire? Sure, the Warring States period lasted longer (if we count the Spring and Autumn period), but that was on the basis of several large, stable states that existed for centuries. After the Sui dynasty, I don't think China ever experienced an age of fragmentation that lasted as long.

So what do you think were some of the factors that prevented China from being unified for 300 years?
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
The Han and Tang dynasties were both "golden ages" of Chinese civilization, both regional "superpowers" militarily and economically, and both were extremely influential culturally.

However, between the end of the Han dynasty and the beginning of the Tang dynasty lies almost 400 years of "lost history" (220 AD to 618 AD). We are most familiar with only the beginning and the end of those "lost centuries": the Three Kingdoms period (220-280) and the Sui dynasty (581-618). That still leaves about 300 years of what I would term as China's "Dark Age".

This period is characterized by fragmentation, short lived dynasties, and almost constant war that rivals the Warring States period. The famous Battle of Fei River is from this age. The King of the North, Fu Jian, amassed an enormous army of northern "barbarians" to invade the weakened Han kingdom of the South (East Jin). The East Jin army was literally outnumbered 10 to 1, but by some miracle, managed to completely obliterate Fu Jian's 800,000-strong army.

Some historians believe that had Fu Jian won the battle, China might have been united 200 years earlier. Personally, I disagree with that assessment, as the fact that Fu Jian's "empire" collapsed after this single defeat shows he did not have the necessary structure for a lasting empire. In comparison, the short-lived Sui launched 3 campaigns against Goguryeo where they lost millions of men, and the imperial power still survived. The Tang dynasty was literally able to attrition Goguryeo to destruction.

In any case, even if Fu Jian might not have been a good candidate, I have to wonder why no one else was able to rise to the task of unification until the Sui Empire? Sure, the Warring States period lasted longer (if we count the Spring and Autumn period), but that was on the basis of several large, stable states that existed for centuries. After the Sui dynasty, I don't think China ever experienced an age of fragmentation that lasted as long.

So what do you think were some of the factors that prevented China from being unified for 300 years?

Geography had a huge part, especially when China entered into the Northern and Southern Dynasties period. While the rulers of the Northern Dynasties were gradually Sinified, they still relied heavily on heavy cavalry, which traditionally had trouble operating south of the Yangtze -- which in turn provided a huge obstacle for against invaders.

In my opinion, Sui lucked out due to the ineffectual rule of the last Chen emperor, Chen Shubao. They saw a chance at securing victory and seized it. The same could be said about Song's conquest of Southern Tang.
 

shen

Senior Member
How come several hundred years later, the Yuan didn't have problem conquering the south in one generation.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Japan had relationship with both Sui and Tang dynasty and is taught in world history from mid school. Before those two, Japan had very little connection or to be precise not many records remains since Japan's unification was not established at the time as well.
I believe this is not a coincidence based on change of agriculture at the time when Japan made a transition from Chestnuts to rice as source of staple.
This could mean that there was a
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solarz

Brigadier
How come several hundred years later, the Yuan didn't have problem conquering the south in one generation.

If we count the start of Yuan from when Genghis Khan first started his conquests, then it took 70 years for the Mongols to conquer the entirety of China. They enjoyed several advantages not available during the Northern and Southern Dynasties, such as middle-eastern siege engines and infrastructure built over decades by the Jin Dynasty, which always had its eye on the South Song.
 
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