battle for Changsa,1939

hardware

Banned Idiot
decade ago I watch documentary about the battle of Changsa.which the japanese armies were destroy by pincel attack by the Chinese arm force.wikipedia do not provide greater detail about the fighting.is there more info on this battle.
 

pissybits

Junior Member
decade ago I watch documentary about the battle of Changsa.which the japanese armies were destroy by pincel attack by the Chinese arm force.wikipedia do not provide greater detail about the fighting.is there more info on this battle.

Changsha (my hometown) was one of the most hard-fought cities in the Chinese resistance. In fact, the ancient city was burned to the ground when Chiang Kai Shek decided to torch the city in a scorched earth tactic before the battle of 1939. (a tragedy that killed thousands) If you want more information about this horrible fire, look up Wenxi Fire on Wiki. The fire meant that there are very few historical structures left in the city, (and even less now since they are demolishing everything) making it one of the most destroyed cities of World War 2. Baidu has a thoroughly good article that talks about the event in greater detail. (in Chinese)

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Unlike Chiang Kai Shek thought, the scorched earth tactic was completely needless because Changsha did not fall immediately like he thought it would. It took the Japanese 4 tries and massive casualties to take the city from 1939-1944, and I don't think there is another example of a Chinese city that put up such a fight in the entire course of the war.

The Battles of Changsha, Hengyang, and Changde were all extremely hard-fought where we resisted till the end despite overwhelming odds. Hunan is home of the 湘军, (the only effective force at crushing the Taiping Rebels) and Hunanese are often taught that we are a martial and stubborn people, and I have to say that history seems to agree!
 

hardware

Banned Idiot
the 4 attempt by the japanese involve as many 300,000 men in the late stage of world war-2 turn out to be pyrrhic victory the japanese force, since it also suffer large casualties, and since large number of troop are draw from manchuria.this weaken and depleted the japanese forces ,and by time soviet launched a massive offensive on august 1945,there are simple not enough men to defend any front.
 

ABC78

Junior Member
Changsha (my hometown) was one of the most hard-fought cities in the Chinese resistance. In fact, the ancient city was burned to the ground when Chiang Kai Shek decided to torch the city in a scorched earth tactic before the battle of 1939. (a tragedy that killed thousands) If you want more information about this horrible fire, look up Wenxi Fire on Wiki. The fire meant that there are very few historical structures left in the city, (and even less now since they are demolishing everything) making it one of the most destroyed cities of World War 2. Baidu has a thoroughly good article that talks about the event in greater detail. (in Chinese)

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Unlike Chiang Kai Shek thought, the scorched earth tactic was completely needless because Changsha did not fall immediately like he thought it would. It took the Japanese 4 tries and massive casualties to take the city from 1939-1944, and I don't think there is another example of a Chinese city that put up such a fight in the entire course of the war.

The Battles of Changsha, Hengyang, and Changde were all extremely hard-fought where we resisted till the end despite overwhelming odds. Hunan is home of the 湘军, (the only effective force at crushing the Taiping Rebels) and Hunanese are often taught that we are a martial and stubborn people, and I have to say that history seems to agree!

Let's also not forget The Battle of Tiaerzhang refered to sometimes in the west as "The Stalingrad of East".
 

pissybits

Junior Member
Let's also not forget The Battle of Tiaerzhang refered to sometimes in the west as "The Stalingrad of East".

Yes, Taierzhuang was a significant Chinese victory earlier in the war, but sadly Shandong is relatively close to the coast and harder to defend, thus these territories were later lost when the Japanese reinforced. Hunan however was a very hard nut to crack. The Japanese never made it very far into West Hunan (湘西) because the territory was way too inhospitable. West Hunan with its dense forests and treacherous mountain passes is ideal for ambushes, and foreign invading armies without good knowledge of the terrain are like sitting ducks. (imagine the U.S. in Vietnam but without the massive airpower)
 

lightspeed

Junior Member
Let's also not forget The Battle of Tiaerzhang refered to sometimes in the west as "The Stalingrad of East".


Soviet Marshal Vasily Chuikov developed the battle tactics and strategics for the battle of Stalingrad. Vasily Chuikov was a Russian military observer in China during 1938 and he observed the Battle of Tiaerzhang then. Vasily Chuikov wrote in his works that Tiaerzhang is his inspiration for the Stalingrad battle.
 

hardware

Banned Idiot
the contribution by KMT against the japanese invasion were far far greater than Chinese communist willing to acknowledge.
 

delft

Brigadier
the contribution by KMT against the japanese invasion were far far greater than Chinese communist willing to acknowledge.
I'm pretty ignorant about Chinese history, but what happened to the KMT armed forces that were so effective near Changsa and whose "contribution ...against the japanese invasion were far far greater than Chinese communist willing to acknowledge" that they were so ineffective after 1945? After 1945 they had years of experience, supply with weapons and equipment by the US was much easier and lots of it was available so what happened?
 

vesicles

Colonel
I'm pretty ignorant about Chinese history, but what happened to the KMT armed forces that were so effective near Changsa and whose "contribution ...against the japanese invasion were far far greater than Chinese communist willing to acknowledge" that they were so ineffective after 1945? After 1945 they had years of experience, supply with weapons and equipment by the US was much easier and lots of it was available so what happened?

Their ineffectiveness came from atop. Although they had highly experienced troops and talented generals, their leadership was incompetent. One good example was the the battle of Liao-Shen, the first major battle in the Chinese civil war. The KMT was winning the battle hands down and the CCP was just about to go into the forest and start their guerrilla warfare again. At that critical point, Jiang, the leader of KMT, decided to call back the commander of the KMT armies in the northeast because of he didn't like/ trust the guy. This commander was trained in the US, instead of Jiang's own Huangpu military academy. Thus, Jiang didn't consider this general, Sun Liren, his own. Although general Sun was perhaps one of the most capable generals in KMT, he was relieved of his duty. The new commander to the Northeast decided to take apart Sun's army because he wanted his own people to man the key posts. Once the highly cohesive and highly lethal "The New first army" was taken apart and moved to various places, its fighting capability was completely destroyed and the CCP defeated them easily. And once Manchuria was in the hands of the CCP, the entire country was like a watershed.

The competence of KMT during WWII was very obvious to see. All you have to do is to simply google battle of Changsha and battle of Wuhan. Look at the casualty list as well as the length of the battles. You will see how effective the KMT was against the Japanese. The Japanese got to central China in the Fall of 1937, but the KMT managed to fight them to a stalemate and hold the Japanese in the area for the next 7 years and inflicted close to 200,000 casualties to the Japanese.
 
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