Ask anything Thread

Discussion in 'Navy' started by Jeff Head, Apr 6, 2015.

  1. Jura
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    Jura Lieutenant General

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    the sailors on "stealthy" ship should be kept inside so that they can't waive at the satellite tracking their "stealthy" ship, no? LOL!
    Nov 23, 2016
     
  2. bd popeye
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    bd popeye The Last Jedi
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    I can't tell you what the PLAN allows at sea but on a USN ship as long as the weather is good, an the sea state is stable then sailors can be on the deck...and what kwaigonegin posted;

    Of course shipmate kwaigonegin is correct.
     
  3. PanAsian
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    PanAsian Major

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    There is no Chinese desire to invade Vietnam or the Koreas per se. The last time China invaded Vietnam was in response to Vietnam invading Cambodia. The Korea scenario for China is against another's hostile takeover of North Korea.

    It would be easier for China to move substantial forces overland while simply preventing hostile expeditionary operations instead of China attempting it themselves. These countries are right next to China with long land borders so there is no need for truly expeditionary forces. These days China can also carry out substantial long range strikes covering the entirety of these countries without having to send in ground troops.

    Taiwan is a unique scenario where it is part of the unfinished Chinese civil war, it is an island, but it is also geographically closer to mainland China than between some places within mainland China itself. China would need substantial amphibious and airborne forces for a successful Taiwan takeover but it would be a substantial short distance expeditionary requirement unlike the long distance power projection that is usually what is referred to as a true expeditionary capability.
     
  4. Bhurki
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    Bhurki Junior Member
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    Is there any connection amongst the Borei class and type 096 production/development? Is there any possibility that the chinese will rely on russian input/help to materialize this project considering russian tech is usually deemed quite advanced in the field of sub stealth (noise reduction)..
     
  5. Tam
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    Tam Senior Member
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    Absolutely no. Chinese and Russians are not that close enough for this level of strategic relationship and there are still some strategic rivalry between the two. The Russians will see this ultimately having backlash of them in the worst possible way.
     
    #375 Tam, Sep 8, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
  6. Bhurki
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    Bhurki Junior Member
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    The russians already have leased an SSN to india for quite many years now.... And are planning to lease another one..
    You think russian relations with china are not even as strong as with India?
    China did buy kilo, sovremenny, sukhoi etc so consumer wise its relations should at least be if not stronger than India.
    Considering both follow inherently the same communist ideology (or atleast essence of it) and its high time russia understands it can only save face in the global scenario if it teams up with China (economically and militarily).It is no longer the superpower rival it once was to the US.
     
  7. Tam
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    Tam Senior Member
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    Russia isn't communist at all. Its capitalist based on cronies and oligarchs. In China, the very rich, like Jack Ma, doesn't have that sway over the government or fall into an inner circle with the leader. Describing the two in ideological terms would be Oligarchic or Crony Capitalism vs. Authoritarian Capitalism.

    Russia is always wary about China's power. It likes to sell stuff to China it does not mean it likes to transfer tech which defeats the purpose of making the Chinese buy their stuff. The Russians want to support their defense industries too, which account for plenty of jobs. The Russians are not happy when they see Chinese systems like the J-11 that look like Russian ones which they accuse of copying and violating IP. Plus none of the weapons they sold to China are considered strategic. Russia is also willing to sell weapons to countries that compete with China in the South China Seas, like the Philippines and Vietnam, like corvettes and subs to them.

    Russia's relations with India is stronger when it comes to military but that has taken a lot of rocks lately, particularly in relation with the fighter aircraft. Naval front the Russian and Indian relationship is still quite okay and Russia is selling two overpriced frigates to India.
     
  8. Bhurki
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    Bhurki Junior Member
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    Still though, China is the only country that can negate the effects of western sanctions on Russia to a major extent, at least individually, and normally it has low ideological baggage when China helps somebody out with funds.
    I hope they leverage this to get some ToT from the russkies before they get into an actual conflict with the US.
    Bdw, how would you define the $2bn deal for 24 su35 in terms of cost?.
     
  9. Tam
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    Tam Senior Member
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    Western sanctions are not working with Russia, as they, especially Germany, are still buying oil and natural gas from Russia. And Japan is also becoming a large customer of Russian gas and oil, and will be a bigger customer once those trans-siberian pipelines are finished. It can be said that China's and Russia's economic ties will deepen thanks to the trade wars.

    The main difference between China's and Russia's current ideology is that oligarchs don't survive long in China. They can find themselves charged with corruption and go to jail.

    $2 billion for 24 Su-35 is not a big deal for China. Its small potatoes, chump change they can afford, but it gives a big political boost to improve their friendship with Russia. China is under fire from the Russians for copying IP to duplicate the Su-27, but which China claims they have a license. This IP issue not going anywhere, the Su-35 buy will help placate those differences. Another factor is that this purchase helps China's influence on the Russian Far East, since these Su-35s are built on a plant north of Chinese border near Harbin. Once finished, these Su-35s don't need to travel far to get to their Chinese bases and if they need some maintenance, its all next door. Flankers and Kilo subs destined to China are mostly made in this Amur region; the Kilo successor that the Chinese Navy considered buying, the Lada-Amur class, not surprisingly is also made here.

    To China's credit vis a sis the relations with Russia, vs. India's relations with Russia, China conducts more major joint exercises with Russia. You can see last year when the Chinese Navy was the only foreign navy that joined Russia's naval parade. (This year was all Russian though). This year, later this month, the PLA will send a large army contingent to participate in Russia's massive Vostok exercise. Previously, there was another major Russian exercise where the PLAAF sent a contingent of planes to participate. Also the Russian Pacific Fleet is on the move, for a major exercise, and its a common habit for the PLAN to have joint exercises with them.
     
  10. gelgoog
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    gelgoog Junior Member
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    For the Chinese the $2 billion for 24 Su-35 was just peanuts. I also allows them to inspect the technology to see if it is worthwhile of duplication or to know its limitations. The Su-35 has a much more powerful radar and higher thrust engines with TVC vs the Su-30.
    At worst they can use it for antagonist training. Guess who are the other likely major buyers?

    The Russian project for the successor to the Kilo so far has been a disaster. That's why China has not bought any. I think there is a definitive possibility Russia would sell older generation nuclear submarine technology or know-how to China much like their deal with India. Not the latest generation technology however. But something like the Akula attack submarine is within the realms of possibility. Considering that the Russians still use the Akula hull as the basis for their modern SSBN's I think it would be a nice purchase. But other than the hull a lot of the systems are antiquated. Still they should be better than what China has available right now.

    Other than a possible purchase of the Su-34 I don't see much need for the purchase of other Russian weapons platforms in China that the Russians would be available to sell right now. Russian bomber airframes are either obsolete or are too expensive and complex for China to get into even if they sold them. Seriously. I do not know what got into the head of the Russians that it's a good idea to continue to produce the Tu-160M2. That thing is a monster. Twice the size of a B-1. It is also a technological dead end in terms of the airframe. It's cool but impractical.

    China is still severely lagging in terms of nuclear submarine technology. Their latest diesel-electric subs are quite decent but a large part of the fleet is much older types. So I think that should be their top priority in terms of purchases. They could also buy the Shkval supercavitating torpedo if they haven't got it already. I mean Russia sold it to Iran why not China.
     
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