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Discussion in 'Army' started by Jeff Head, Apr 6, 2015.

  1. solarz
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    solarz Brigadier

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    No, the "Mao Suit" is actually known as "Zhongshan Suit" in Chinese, named after Sun Zhongshan, aka Sun Yatsen. As far as I know, there are no formal prescriptions of evening wear in China. Both Western and Zhongshan suits are acceptable as formal wear for men.

    Also AFAIK, the formal wear for Chinese military personnel are these:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]



    I'm not 100% certain, but I think the white uniform is for the navy and the green uniform for the army.
     
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  2. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    So basically ritzy Service uniforms?
    golden cord looks like some additional golden bling on the sleeves and a white shirt as opposed to the colored work shirt. So it’s more of a “Full Dress Uniform”

    Traditional western dress is divided into a verity if roles.

    White tie or Morning wear often worn at high day affaires. For the military this would be Full dress uniform think Christenings, weddings, diplomat events. "no man should ever be caught in a church in a tuxedo."
    From time to time cheating has happened here where a white version of the service uniform with a white bow tie was worn.

    Black tie or evening wear for events after dark. Mess or dinner dress for military. Balls, Formal dinners and events.
    although some have cheated by small modifications to the service uniform replacing the tie with a Bow tie and swapping medals for ribbons.

    informal dress or leisure. This is the traditional place of the Business suit. This was the day to day professional form of dress for the military the service uniform sits here.
    Thing is that I have to admit I was thinking it would look just like you posted. A little more bling to the type 07.
    Western uniforms above the service uniform are often optional and even then custom tailored based on patterns but not always exact. Some armies don’t even prescribe one for there own wear. Heck a few don’t even have a service uniform. If they need to get dressed up they wear civilian.
    As to the Mao suit. I figured it had an alternative name in China. I was using the common name I knew it as.
    It’s said that it was used as formal wear by Communist Chinese Attaches during the official presentation of credentials ceremony. And other diplomatic functions.
    Here is Xi wearing one at a Black tie event with Then President Obama. C2AA1E55-B51D-4FBD-BFEA-273B65A75F6F.jpeg
     
    #72 TerraN_EmpirE, Oct 10, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
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  3. solarz
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    solarz Brigadier

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    If I remember correctly, Jiang Zemin always wore a western suit:

    [​IMG]

    Hu Jintao wore a western suit most of the time:

    [​IMG]

    Except at the 60th anniversary military parade:

    [​IMG]

    That was the first time I saw him in a Zhongshan suit.

    The reason the name matters is because you seemed to think that the suit was adopted in the PRC because of Mao, when in truth it was in fashion during the ROC era.
     
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  4. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    I was using the name. That is most well known to the west.
    The suit has its own history and rational. It’s actually a little ironic. Although Chinese historically have worn male jackets with mandarin style collar deep in history. This particular suit was inspired by Japanese Student uniform. Which was it’s self inspired by Imperial army uniform in turn borrowed from Western military uniforms. The Military Tunic still worn today by a number of armed forces as Full Dress with standing collar and single breast hip length which was widely worn in military and to a degree civilian we are in the 19th century. the USMC dress Blue or USN “Chokers” Tropical white. The Old German Waffenrock, British Army Dress Blue No1. Are from the same basis just simplified.
    It is also similar to the Stalin tunic sometimes called the French tunic from Russia.

    Speaking of Hu Jintao he commuted a fashion Faux pas in 2011 when he arrived at a Official White House Black Tie event in western business suit. An event that the Tunic suit would have been considered appropriate for.

    At the heart of my original question was one of Army uniform dress code.
    1. Active dress like a Running suit I thought I recall seeing for the PLA.
    2. Work Dress we know well camouflage uniforms and flight suits. Utility uniforms worn by the Navy.
    3. Service Dress Type 07 suit
    4. Full Dress ???
    5. Mess/Dinner ????????
    The Tunic suit is considered acceptable dinner dress by western dress code under national costume. IE Xi was dressed to code at the Obama State dinner he attended. Hence why I asked for a formal event like a embassy dinner a military variant of the tunic suit would make sense as I doubt the PLA would consider a Tuxedo styled Mess dress.
     
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  5. PiSigma
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    PiSigma "the engineer"

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    PLA don't have full suit or mess suit, since they don't follow western dress norms.
     
  6. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    Quite to the contrary.
    The recent uniforms have however followed western military dress code. The Type 07 uniform series in particular.
    D5C6351E-D09E-4CA2-AAC9-6C09D91308F1.png
    The double breasted version with aiguillettes would conform to Full Dress. 801CD8D2-7F5A-4B5D-8D49-2667183C133E.png
    The Single breasted as more service wear.
    Coat less for standard duty wear in the rest of the year round. EAD832A9-EF1D-4325-A6E8-68C3D58CF3EF.png 9BE24B16-AB03-45AA-BE69-31C8D0674C19.png
     
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  7. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    And the Double Breasted isn’t a Winter uniform as they classified winter wear and foul weather versions as well. 5AB4B467-B74B-44AE-9CF2-E268BABAD764.png 4BDCA3BA-395B-479E-B501-C90D841D737F.png 157866A4-0660-4358-A134-6694D6B3E1C9.png
    These clearly conform to western norms. now these are Rocket force uniforms because of convinces of having them all laid out nicely in a manor that could be classed A-D.
    As such it’s not impossible for them to have classified a Mess Dress uniform that just hadn’t been seen. However the PRC is a Communist country by party. As such “Black tie” or “White tie” might come off as Bourgeoisie. The Tunic suit is considered an appropriate evening dress alternative, And until recently was worn as Service uniform by the PLA and it’s arms.
     
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  8. PiSigma
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    PiSigma "the engineer"

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    Nope. The double breasted version is just formal wear (per the title of photo you posted). They don't actually have the strings attached mostly, it only goes on for ceremonies, but same outfit.

    Ask one of my uncles last night about it, he is retired 1 star in the army. He never worn one or seen anyone in the actual army wear one.

    There are 3 outfitsthey get issued.
    1) work out, basically shorts and t shirt
    2) normal day wear for duty or work dress. The camps etc.
    3) formal dress, which is the suit version you see.

    Most officers or soldiers that work in an office or hq will just wear the suit pants and shirt (no tie) like business casual.
     
    #78 PiSigma, Nov 8, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  9. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    Which is basically what @solarz already said at the top. IE Double Breasted with Gold Aguilllettes is the Full Dress. There is no Mess Dress.

    However because we see that Double Breasted version of the coat (That you Just translated for me [Thank you by the way] it’s not really 3 but 4.
    Active Running shorts and or sweats T-Shirt
    Work (Camouflage or Coveralls),
    Service uniform (Shirt with our tie, Shirt tie and single breasted)
    Full Dress (Double Breasted).

    The question then would be who would Be the PLAN junior enlisted. Who wear the PLA version of the traditional Naval Rig. As with most navies [I already have seen that] they issue two sets Whites and Blues and also add the Aguillettes. However most navies have a In between set of service uniform. Normally a Shirt and tie for duties that are more working.

    I am not trying to get into a fight here but Formal and Full Dress are basically the same term for use.
    The one that is missing is Evening wear or Semi formal.
    It’s a confusing term like Sports wear and Active wear they don’t mean the same thing. Sports wear is more business casual, well active wear is Running shorts and T shirts.

    Most service uniform wear is in the class B “Working” form IE no coat. The coat is normally used for more official situations as typically prescribed. IE Reporting to your new post, formation, VIP visits or Meetings.
     
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  10. solarz
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    solarz Brigadier

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    Sounds like you're trying to pigeonhole Chinese military dress etiquette into American military dress etiquette.

    @PiSigma said they were issued 3 outfits. I would venture to guess that the shorts and t-shirt are for exercising in warm weather, the formal dress is for any formal occasion, regardless of the "degree of formality", and the normal wear is for every other occasion.

    Most Chinese would not know the difference between a business suite and a tuxedo because we don't make such distinctions in formality.
     
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