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Discussion in 'Army' started by Jeff Head, Apr 6, 2015.

  1. solarz
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    solarz Colonel

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    Gotcha, but would you say those 200 pounds of kit are really necessary for mission, or is it more a matter of doctrine?

    What I'm wondering is, with the appropriate training and doctrine, could a company of all-female infantry be as effective as a company of males?
     
  2. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    Frankly even Male troops are having issues with nearly 150-200 pound war loads. The human body was not designed for what is being asked of it.
    If you look at infantry though out history, these heavy loads are a recent affair most infantry loads going back from before the 60's till World war 1 were about 120 pounds and before that it was more like 80 pounds. From the Roman Legion till industrial revolution. (I am not counting Knights with full armored suits mind you but that is distributed weight. IE as opposed to being loaded on your back and Shoulders its over your entire body. And they being nobles could pay for spare horses and squires to transport and repair there gear)
    This is why you have interest in Light mechanized infantry using Quad ATV's and Mule Robots.

    If you are a Cav trooper attached to a IFV you happen to have a very nice way of keeping that weight off of you. IE you mount that kit on or in your assigned vehicle ( see the Bradleys below). but operations for Light infantry, Mountain and Airborne don't allow this. Same if true for long range foot patrols like those seen in Afghanistan.

    2017 - 1.jpg
    It's a matter of needs. basic uniform, body armor, spare uniform, Rations, water, toiletries, Weapons and Ammo, Poncho, Sleeping bag and bivouac, Observation and communications this can range in weight from 110 to 200 pounds depending on mission.

    Of course a Third world Army will generally have lighter kit, not having armor or electronics but they are more dependent on living off the land Something that has been both a strong point and weak point of armies since prehistory. A Strong point as you cut down the logistics train a weakness as well Napoleon in Russia and Malaysian Emergency proved Where a Army or Rebel group was suddenly isolated from getting food by local supplies by either Scorched earth or isolating the civilian population from the insurgents. This left the force starving and increasingly desperate. Desperate hungry dehydrated troops tend to be sick and weak with a tendency to also cause problems like raiding local populations for food. When this happens friendly relations between the locals and the offending army get frayed allowing for closer relations with the opposition. Or in the case of scorched earth there is potential of poisoning or contamination.

    So you see the need here. Having readily available food packed for you means reduced risk of illness and breakdown of discipline. Water is essential for life and infantry need it and a lot of it. That means containers like Canteens or Camelbacs but you also need to be sure that water is potable. Otherwise the infantryman is useless as a casualty. So that means filtration and sterilization.
    Modern gear like Radios and Night vision need batteries and are not light themselves. They are essentials of modern military operations. clean uniform kit is also needed and the same for toiletries. Body Armor has changed lives. In the US far more vets are returning home alive than would have been the case with out armor.

    Infantry also has to carry weapons and many of these weapons are not lightweight Infantry units often have a mix of heavier arms like 60mm-81mm Mortars, Recoiless weapons and the like along side there standard small arms. a Type 89 HMG used by the PLA is about 40 pounds weapon alone add in tripod and ammo and that is easily 60 pounds of kit now put that in a Infantry unit on patrol along the Indian Boarder. with body armor and kit. to make up for this I am not sure how the PLA does it but in the west it means someone else in the Squad is loaded with basically 2 packs, His own and the MG gunners.

    But Again the Human machine was not designed to be carrying double or two and a half times it's own weight on a regular basis well being expected to move across all kinds of terrain and possibly even needing to run at top speed.
    This creates all kinds of issues especially Athletic injuries. Stress fractures of the hips, issues with the spine and knees. Just prolonged basic Drill like Marching can do horrors to young men and women in training. In my own Short time in the USMC I remember not just being washed out because of such but a fairly large number of those who were also washed out because of such. Corpsmen were regularly concerned about 18 and 19 year old who had hips and shins that looked like they were of a 50-60 year old in an X ray.

    SO let me boil this down because I have just gone on a long tangent.
    is 200 pounds of kit needed? not all of it to be sure. I think with some steps that weight can be reduced in some areas light lighter weapons reduced weight electronics and armor are always under development. You can off load some weight with use of Vehicles both manned and unmanned/ Armored and Unarmored as well as technologies that redistribute the soldiers pack loads.

    My short term answer is maybe.
    I caveat my answer here because, Short term as after about age 35 females have a higher risk of Osteoporosis meaning that a female infantryman has a shorter potential service life then her male counterpart, You also need to find women who have the mind set to be pushed as hard and take the challenge. Infantry duty is not a short term choice it's going to take years of life and years of commitment to stay in at the performance levels needed. If she decides to do this it's likely to effect a lot of her potential life choices.
    Her Male counterpart for example can father a child at any point in time during his service where as the athletic demands of the Infantry may mean that during her time in service inability to mother a Child if she so chose. IE if she decided to become a mother she may need to change MOS to a non combat arms.
    If you can get past those and get the numbers needed to build your all female unit as well as sustain those numbers then I don't see a Why not.
     
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  3. vesicles
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    vesicles Major

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    The general consensus among experienced shooters seems to be that females are naturally better at shooting. I was talking with a gun range owner the other day. He himself is a vet who has gone on several active duties overseas. His wife is a police officer.

    He said that the vast majority of the female shooters shoot much better as beginners than experienced male shooters. He said that many first time female shooters at his range may not even know how to hold the gun properly, but they can shoot very accurately.

    My wife is one of those shooters. She has only shot guns a handful of times, but boy can she put hit bullseyes!! I’m much more experienced at shooting (been shooting guns since high school), but still can’t compete with her.

    Last week at the range, when I was joking that my wife’s hands were shaking when she shot but she could still hit the target, the owner of the range said that it was very typical for female shooters...
     
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  4. Iron Man
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    Iron Man Captain
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    Not sure you can reconcile your post with the fact that the world's best shooters are almost all men.
     
  5. vesicles
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    vesicles Major

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    Well, can you give an example where men and women compete side-by-side and men consistently win? Men have been known for shooting because male has been traditionally and historically linked with military stuff. Women, on the other hand, are either not interested in shooting, or don’t think they can be good. So less women try shooting. However, that doesn’t mean they are any worse than men.
     
  6. Iron Man
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    Iron Man Captain
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    Hmmm, the world's best records are held by men. If men and women have equal skill there wouldn't be separate men's and women's categories, and the world's best women wouldn't be routinely scoring worse than the world's best men, which by the way, they do:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_records_in_shooting
     
  7. SteelBird
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    SteelBird Major

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    Usually, what's the thickness of the rear armor of a tank especially those with rear mount engine? Can it sustain a direct hit of an anti-tank weapon like RPG-7?
     
  8. Sunhead_from_Arya
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    Sunhead_from_Arya New Member
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    Hello, I would like to ask one question, I do not think that for this you need to create a tread.
    Why, the second operator of AFT-10 missile carrier can start a firing only after 10 seconds after first operator opened fire?
     
  9. ahho
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    ahho Junior Member

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    I am not sure if this was asked before, but how common are air conditioner are equipped in modern day IFV, APC, 4x4, Tanks and self propelled artillery
     
  10. Mohsin77
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    Mohsin77 Junior Member
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    Does anyone have any information regarding Active Protection Systems for MBTs that China is developing?

    Russians claim to be able to counter kinetic sabots now (which is a tall claim), I was wondering if China is working on something similar.
     
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