American Economics Thread

Discussion in 'Members' Club Room' started by Bernard, May 16, 2015.

  1. PanAsian
    Offline

    PanAsian Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    3,077
    That's a fair enough assessment of one aspect of the situation.

    At the same time it is an opportunity to keep up the bar or raise the bar for a larger portion of the world's population in terms of food quality and availability. But things might get worse before it gets better similar to the path of renewable energy industries.

    From the perspective of an average American this can't come at a worse time with the Trump administration's deregulation agenda especially the casting aside of environmental and pollution issues. American food quality is likely to decline significantly from that alone.

    Add in the fatten profits first mentality that both directly and indirectly got Trump elected and importing food from China where quality control is worse, it's practically guaranteed that American food quality will decline.

    China is indeed a huge market with huge demand especially for commodities like food and have driven up prices in other markets, there is no reason why it would be any different this time.

    Though only one factor for now, it is an example of the quality of life things that will add up and eventually reduce the allure of being an average American versus being an average citizen of many other countries such as China to the point where people who the US desires will no longer see becoming an American or living/working in the US as personally beneficial. This is a core and unique pillar of US soft power that is being eroded.

    I think the US has been making unforced error after unforced error strategically since the late 2000's financial crisis, mainly due to a self-serving elite who has corrupted the system and too much of the population. As mentioned by others somewhere in the forum recently if the US falls it will fall by rot from within just like every other empire before it. I'm still holding out hope though that this course will change.
     
  2. Yvrch
    Offline

    Yvrch Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    597
    It would really be a hard sell for China to accept highest possible bar amenable to Western advanced OECD economies in one single stroke. Remember, China still is an emerging economy, despite her size and complexity. Not that Chinese consumers themselves, or the government bureaucrats, don't want them, but the question is who would absorb the costs of high bar in the Chinese society? So that's basically a political question. Who would have enough political capital to set down the rules for high bar that surely will rile up a lot of interest groups domestically. So unless it's a gradual process, there is not much likelihood China would agree to advanced OECD economies standards overnight. The chances to hitch onto TPP standards are gone. So mostly likely, China won't play by US demands alone; US has to play by China's requirement as well.

    American dream, moving forward, most likely would be only for those Americans who are asleep, or in the top percentile. Anybody who is awake and alert wouldn't miss what's happening: there is another guy across the pond who wants to be just like an American, a better one to boot. So sooner or later, current American living standards will be Chinese living standards. America's current wasteful lifestyles and consumerism wouldn't be able to sustain itself with additional hundreds of millions of Chinese doing the same thing in this one already miserable globe. Anybody awake and alert would see the two simplest outcomes: you pay more to maintain current lifestyle, or pay the same and settle with more frugal lifestyle. There is no American birth rights to stay and live comfortably at the expense of others. You have to compete for it, because you are no better than others. Don't feel privileged.

    Trump I believe is a setback for US, but a gift for China. US will survive Trump for sure, but your lifestyle won't survive China's advance. Trump gives more congenial and better environment for China's likelihood to succeed to get her vision realized.
     
    antiterror13 likes this.
  3. PanAsian
    Offline

    PanAsian Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    3,077
    While I understand logically where you're coming from I think somewhere along the way you crossed the line to unfairly hating on average Americans.

    Like it or not geographic determination, or US circumstances, or simply the luck of the draw of someone born as an American indeed does give them the "birth right" of living however comfortably an American does, not necessarily at the expense of others and certainly not by their own design or intent. That is just as fair as anyone average born anywhere else having to live with the circumstances they do both the good and the bad.

    It is also just as fair for Americans or the US to preserve or advance the advantage of their circumstances as for anyone else, that is part of "competing for" and "earning" it. Average Americans certainly have to compete with the world, as do Chinese or Poles or Somalis, including competing against advantaged Americans who sell out less fortunate Americans and the US as a whole which is where Trump's food trade with China is likely to go at least in the near term. In the long term there is the hope that everyone will eventually raise the bar so everyone benefits.
     
  4. Yvrch
    Offline

    Yvrch Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    597
    I think you are giving too much credit for my mental faculty to have such a fine-tuned sensitivity that I feel hate towards some random "average American" at the most abstract level. No, I don't have those Deepak Chopra complexes. I just tried to see things as they are.

    I'm actually a bit surprised to hear this very un-American fatalistic attitude. Sounds rather like a British royalty than a true American frontier man. By your reasoning, some people still should be slaves?

    I just saw a video a member posted in a thread where Chinese are working hard day and night in adverse weather in most desolate places. That's real hard work in competition. I think they deserve a good steak if they choose so, just like every American, average or not.
    I hope that here competition doesn't imply voting in and out at regular cycles one guy after another who promise what people want to hear while half the population's real pleasure is constantly disagreeing with him.
     
  5. PanAsian
    Offline

    PanAsian Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    3,077
    In that case I am pointing out the big holes in your logic and the prejudice and hate you are demonstrating perhaps without even realizing it...

    ...as well as me pointing out things as they are. What you are hating on and too prejudiced to accept is that I as an average American am too clear eyed to buy into "American exceptionalism" for you to hate on that and rationalize your prejudice.

    I never said people still should be slaves so please explain your reasoning and fatalistic attitude.

    You are mistaken if you think Americans won't do the same if that was their better option, and don't tell me those particular Chinese would be doing that if they had better options.

    I hope competition doesn't mean achieving something just at someone else's expense or wishing ill upon others instead of trying to pursue or create "win-win" possibilities and challenging everyone to meet higher standards and expand the greater good.
     
  6. Yvrch
    Offline

    Yvrch Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    597
    OK Homer, calm down.
    Your emotional meltdowns are least of my concerns: don't matter, don't care.
    I saw it coming a mile away from the get gothat this is going to end up like this that was why I delayed my response to you in the beginning.
     
  7. Yvrch
    Offline

    Yvrch Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    597
    From the beginning I noticed your confused and later conflicted views on how this small slice of trade deal should work for you.

    No, I do not see you as an average American, a typical American, a real American, or whatever the hell else you want to call this Goldilocks statistical geographical surrogate that you wheeled in to hide behind. Tell me what is an average American? LoL.

    American exceptionalism? LoL.
    Another surrogate you wheeled in as if it is your life saver.
    No, no use for big words that you cannot chew, let alone digest.
    Acting out like a spoiled brat with a sense of entitlement doesn't need American exceptionalism to explain, which in itself is a myth.

    You want to talk about that trade deal? Go ahead.
    Have some substance.
     
  8. PanAsian
    Offline

    PanAsian Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    3,077
    Lol, more bigoted personal attacks from you only proves your poor morality and my calling you out for injecting prejudiced hatred of Americans into what was an otherwise civil and informed disagreement between us.

    Here's an article about exactly the well-established problems I've been talking about, of China's food quality control problems and the US importing food from China:
    Here's one about US and China food price inflation and food trade:
    Here's one on food security that has the higher bar and greater good spirit I brought up my concerns with, albeit this article is mainly from China's perspective, rather than your spirit of relishing losses for Americans:
     
  9. Yvrch
    Offline

    Yvrch Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    597
    Dude, I'm giving you a lot of elbowroom to bow yourself out gracefully.

    From the beginning, till now, one after another, you're making a complete fool out of yourself.

    Those articles didn't give you historical perspectives of North South struggles in trades, from UNTAD to GATT to WTO, which already had a long history over so many issues including the ones you just stumbled upon . And you don't have any clue whatsoever of current series of events as well.

    You're butt naked and yet, you have such a confidence.
     
  10. PanAsian
    Offline

    PanAsian Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    3,077
    Yet you're the one who haven't substantiated any of your positions.

    Your repeated wishing ill to Americans and quick resort to character attacks also highlight your prejudiced perspective driving the more relevant parts of your posts to skirt around and obfuscate the issues of poor food quality, food price inflation, how they factor into US-China food trade, and their impact on Americans.
     
Loading...

Share This Page