Aircraft Carriers III

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
AFAIK their long term plan was to build two of their own to replace Sao Paolo, but that was a long term project. Every country that wants carriers also wants the ability to build them too. If I were in Brazil's shoes, I'd take a smarter option; have the hulls built abroad by a Nation that can do it quickly and at a reasonable price (South Korea tops my list) and just carry out final fitting out in Rio to help support local industry. Trying to replicate something along the lines of DCNS or the ACA at Rosyth is just going to be too complicated and expensive to be realistic for the foreseeable future. South Korea could deliver a CdG (non nuclear) sized carrier in five years or even less IMHO. Time to swallow a bit of pride and place that order!5a595f645e6a55f07e342322599d2c20.jpg I am curious to know which way the Brazilians will turn next. ATLANTICO will give them a fleet flagship and allow their helicopters to deploy in force with the fleet, but what role will the employ her in? They have amphibious forces but they were not the central focus of the fleet previously. She is a highly capable ASW asset as she can operate ASW Helicopters, but unless the Brazilians buy a number of either AV-8Bs from the US (second hand of course) or raid the piggy bank for F-35Bs then the Brazilian Navy's fighter pilots will remain land locked with their shiny A-4s.329787156071bbdeebfab.jpg
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Came across this anecdote from a former RN Gannet pilot, Mike Cole-Hamilton. He flew from HMS Hermes with 849 NAS in 1966 and this tale should give a very, interesting, picture of life back in the day:

"I had written down an assortment of memories from the front cockpit. In no particular order I'm happy to post them occasionally, if everyone's OK with that. What follows is a fragrant fragment from my log book.

It was Autumn 1966, Hermes was working up in the Moray Firth and waters beyond. Our AEW3 Gannet was launched on a sunny October morning, all set to control Sea Vixens . And, as always, because the radar of those days took a good while to warm up, we were launched 15 minutes ahead of everyone else.

Even for a big bloke like me, the Gannet's cockpit was comfortably spacious and the bubble canopy gave a great view of the world. Warm sun, blue sea and sky, what a nice morning. And then.........

There was no physical connection between the cockpit and the rear cabin where the two Observers worked their radar etc., but you could smell if they were pouring coffee or smoking. Two or three minutes into the sortie it was quite clear this wasn't either, I put my mask back on and switched the supply to 100% oxygen.

A strained voice on the intercom said "Was that YOU?" "No! I thought it was YOU!" "Well, it wasn't ME!" And so we came to the conclusion that nobody was guilty, or prepared to admit it, but we had an unusual and unpleasant smell in the aircraft.

More seriously, smells usually have an electrical source, so we started turning things off. By about 10 minutes into the trip we realised the source was the radar - and our radar was essential to the launch about to take place.

Hermes would have to know, and very soon. But how on earth to tell the ship, and which of us would do it? Of the three Lieutenants on board, Rick was the senior. Tony and I instantly delegated it to him. The exchange went something like this.......

"Charlie, this is 330"

"330, go ahead"

"Roger Charlie, 330 requests return U/S"

Audible sigh - "Roger 330, report nature of unserviceability"

"330 has a strange smell in the aircraft"

"Roger 330, report nature of smell"

Rick, in a strangled voice "We really don't think it would help you to know!"

"330, your AEO present, says essential report nature of smell"

"OK Dave, it's a strong FARMYARD sort of smell!"

Long pause "Roger 330, return to overhead Charlie and wait"

We did and, orbiting overhead, we watched the chaos we had caused on the flight deck and imagined the similar activities in the hangar. Hermes had to delay this launch and get another Gannet airborne asap, so......

Push back the Vixens that were ready to launch, some already had engines running.....

Get another Gannet out of the hangar and up the side lift, crew manning it at the rush.....

Start and launch the Gannet........

Move all the Vixens etc. back to catapult readiness positions, wait 15 minutes for the new Gannet's radar to be OK, start and launch the Vixens..........

Clear any remaining aircraft forr'ard to beyond the Safety Line, and.......

Let us land on, an hour and forty minutes after we had launched

There was total silence from everyone - the NAM who helped me unstrap - the Squadron flight deck crew - all the flight deck party - the FDO's - the entire population of the ACR - they none of them said anything, they just looked at us.

Lunch was a strangely quiet meal, we three lepers ate more or less alone.

Our AEO, a gentle and placid bloke, was overheard to say "OTHER Squadrons bring them back U/S, only MY crowd bring them back smelling of S**T!".

At end of the day's flying, our Gannet was set up on the Flight Deck, engines were started and the radar warmed up to run under dummy load.........and the smell was there.

It was finally traced to a transformer burning out, but the three of us had a hard time living it down!"1967_08_S_015.JPG Hermes%20at%20speed.jpg AEW3%20launch%20Hermes%20'66.JPG
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
What is the name of their enemy?
The Brazilian Air Force.

Brazil has no direct enemy of course, they want to be seen as a 'player' on the world stage, not a backwater third world country. It's about the ability to leave your own backyard and go sort out someone else's problems in theirs, or at least assist the traditional interventionist western powers when they inevitably do. It's about a seat at the grown up's table, not the kiddies area. Right or wrong it's about prestige and with the South American Nations (including Chile, Argentina and Peru) it's a game they've been playing for over a century/
 
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sorry if these don't qualify to
Aircraft Carriers III
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Navy
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LHD conducts a passing exercise with
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Navy
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LHD and
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frigate during their passage across the Red Sea to
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.
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... the shore based Aegis system ...
... related:
The US Navy is fed up with ballistic missile defense patrols

7 hours ago
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The U.S. Navy’s top officer wants to end standing
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patrols and transfer the mission to shore-based assets.

Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson said in no uncertain terms Tuesday that he wants the Navy off the tether of
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patrols, a mission that has put a growing strain on the Navy’s hard-worn surface combatants, and shifted towards more shore-based infrastructure.

“Right now, as we speak, I have six multi-mission, very sophisticated, dynamic cruisers and destroyers -- six of them are on ballistic missile defense duty at sea,” Richardson said during his address at the U.S. Naval War College’s Current Strategy Forum. “And if you know a little bit about this business you know that geometry is a tyrant.

“You have to be in a tiny little box to have a chance at intercepting that incoming missile. So, we have six ships that could go anywhere in the world, at flank speed, in a tiny little box, defending land.”

Richardson continued, saying the Navy could be used in emergencies but that in the long term the problem demands a different solution.

“It’s a pretty good capability and if there is an emergent need to provide ballistic missile defense, we’re there,” he said. “But 10 years down the road, it’s time to build something on land to defend the land. Whether that’s AEGIS ashore or whatever, I want to get out of the long-term missile defense business and move to dynamic missile defense.”

The unusually direct comments from the CNO come amid growing frustration among the surface warfare community that the mission, which requires ships to stay in a steaming box doing figure-eights for weeks on end, is eating up assets and operational availability that could be better used confronting growing high-end threats from China and Russia.

The BMD mission was also a factor in degraded readiness in the surface fleet. Amid the nuclear threat from North Korea, the BMD mission began eating more and more of the readiness generated in the Japan-based U.S. 7th Fleet, which created a pressurized situation that caused leaders in the Pacific to cut corners and sacrifice training time for their crews, an environment described in the Navy’s comprehensive review into the two collisions that claimed the lives of 17 sailors in the disastrous summer of 2017.

Richardson said that as potential enemies double down on anti-access technologies designed to keep the U.S. Navy at bay, the Navy needed to focus on missile defense for its own assets.

“We’re going to need missile defense at sea as we kind of fight our way now into the battle spaces we need to get into,” he said. “And so restoring dynamic maneuver has something to do with missile defense.

The Navy has had some success with land-based BMD with its
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in Romania, which uses what looks like a cruiser superstructure with SPY arrays and missiles to create a missile defense shield. Another AEGIS Ashore is planned for Poland in 2020 and last year
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, which could relieve some of the pressure on 7th Fleet ships once operations.

AEGIS Ashore installations are run around the clock by three shifts of 11 personnel each.

Rotational Deployment Blues

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis has been outspoken about the need for the Navy to become less predictable and more agile to respond to an evolving security environment. Mattis thinks the kind of predictable rotational deployments that dispatch carriers to predictable locations such as the Persian Gulf.

Instead, Mattis wants the Navy to pursue a concept called “dynamic force employment,” having the Navy deploy at odd times and show up in unexpected places, all the while spending less time underway to preserve surge readiness for a major conflict.

But BMD missions work against that kind of unpredictability and consume an out-sized portion of readiness the Navy generates through its deployment model.

Because of the U.S. Navy’s standing commitments around the globe, the fleet has to have a constant forward presence. This means that for every ship that’s forward on deployment, there is a ship back in the states that has just come back from deployment and is in surge status, another ship that is in maintenance and unavailable, and still another ship that is in its training cycle and preparing to relieve the ship on patrol.

With six ships underway doing BMD, that means there are 18 ships tied up in the cycle preparing to do the mission.

“That’s a good chunk of the surface fleet,” said Bryan Clark, a retired submariner and analyst with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments who has studied this issue extensively.

Some of the decline in training and readiness has come from the increasing burden of BMD on the fleet, he said.

“Over time this is one of the places the Navy has made sacrifices in training and readiness,” Clark said. “Because of the high demand, when the [cruisers and destroyers] go into their training cycles they’ve had to do abbreviated versions of the work-ups that focus specifically on missile defense instead of training for the full range of missions those ships are capable of performing.”

And rotating forward deployed ships back to the states for repairs and overhaul is another burden on the force.

The Navy has four BMD destroyers forward deployed in Rota, Spain, which deployed between 2013 and 2014. But those ships were slated to rotate out after six years, a deadline that is rapidly approaching.

In January, then-Fleet Forces head Adm. Phil Davidson described the impact that rotation was having on the ships he needs to fill out carrier strike groups for deployment.

“We sent four destroyers with a certain capability over to Rota, with the idea that they were going to be there each about six years and we were going to replace them with four ships with better capability when that capability was aligned,” Davidson told the audience at Surface Navy Association’s annual conference. “I can tell you that the four ships I’ve got to send next, I’m already pulling them out of strike groups to do the modernization they need to go over there.”

“Then I’m going to get four ships back that then are going to require their docking availability and some modernization as well. Pretty soon this looks like eight ships that are out of the strike group rotation for three years. We’re going to need a bigger Navy to apply that kind of policy.”

The mission could be done for far less money and impact on the fleet from shore-based installations, said Thomas Callender, also a retired submariner and analyst with the Heritage Foundation.

“It takes, what, [33] sailors to run an AEGIS Ashore installation instead of 300 on a DDG?” he said. “And ultimately, if its on land, does it even need to be sailors that run it?”
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Good article on forward deployment

Rota deployment is expensive they had to upgrade the Spanish facility and homes for sailors

4 DDG in and out like the article says requires double the force

Too much work for too little

But this was in response to Russian aggression rather than any real strategy, US had to do something at that time

If US pulls out from Rota it will be seen as weakness

Also on Brazil part and carries one big problem , money !! Brazil is tight on cash
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
It’s 70,000 tons and has conventional power

Which means it’s got a lot of exhaust in two positions and someone asked how can we vent it ?

Someone said how about building 2 islands?

And that’s how the twin island concept came about

But it just gives it that “British” trademark that trying and successfully succeeding on something that not been done before

Those twin islands look awesome
 
below is the link to
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I have to go, so I jumped to the last paragraph where I can see

"Instead it is disappointing to see journalists persist with the ‘carriers with no planes’ rubbish, because it is patently untrue."

l think the author would need to show some F-35s on board instead LOL!

EDIT I'm briefly back: a supercarrier with an empty deck HALF A YEAR SINCE COMMISSIONING looks pathetic, it's P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C that's what I'm telling you from the middle of Europe
 
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